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Thank you Janey,

I haven't given up yet! I think i have found a living relative in Birmingham. I called a few places and decided to register for the electoral roll searches. I am hopeful and determined not to give up. My grandmother's husband was deceased so he's definitely not not the birth cert so i am hopeful Archie may be on it, if not still more searches to go.

Thank you so much for all your help! :)

I wondered whether, if Archie was called Archie all his life, it might be worth looking for him in the 1911 by that name.

MILLS ARCHIE 1907 4 West Derby Lancashire

?

***EDIT***
What follows in this post is a red herrring - false trail - wrong people - but I am leaving it here because of the ruling-out process. Move on to the next post for the real deal, Debbie, and ignore this one!

This birth:

Births Jun 1908
Mills Archibald Hayward W. Derby 8b 330

is accounted for in 1911:

MILLS ARCHIBALD 1909 2 West Derby Lancashire

but I don't see a birth to account for Archie aged 4 (1906-1907).


Good heavens, the family looks like the comic book cast of characters!

MILLS JOHN RICHARD 1880 31
MILLS ELIZABETH ANN 1882 29
MILLS DIZZIE 1902 9 !!
MILLS JACK 1905 6
MILLS ERNEST 1909 2

I wonder whether Dizzie was Isa, born Q3 1901. (Isa, my own impossible gr-grfather's favourite thing to call his daughters, no matter what their name actually was ...)

Marriages Sep 1898
Howard Elizabeth Ann Prescot 8b 1281
MILLS John Richard Prescot 8b 1281

The most likely Arthur birth, making that assumption:

Births Jun 1906
Mills Arthur W. Derby 8b 469
-- may be accounted for by a 5-yr-old Arthur in 1911 (could have been born late March) -- someone at GR seems to have that person birth in her tree.

You'd think Jack would be John, but the only John born around the time in WD was in Q4 1905 - would have been 5 in 1911. There's an Ernest in Q2 1908 in WD, would have been 2 at the census.


There is documentary evidence that your man was Arthur James?

You said there was contact through solicitors until 1940. What are the dates on the letters you have? I'm just thinking - if Archie was younger than your nan, possibly 30ish, might he have been in WWII, possibly killed? I've browsed the A Mills records at CWGC, but nothing leaps off the page.

Hi Janey,

I was impressed at your search. I have looked at his letters again and he signs 2 of them "Arthur" the rest as Archie. His name at the top of all the letters is "A. J. Mills"

The 2 solicitor's letter are dated 19th December, 1939 and 3rd June, 1940. Both addressed to A. J. Mills. I don't have any formal documents. I thought about the army as you have suggested but he mentions in one of his letters about being ill for a long period of time with sickness and having to pay for the doctor to come out and pay for medication until he received his record card from my nan. I'm not sure what the record card is or it's use apart from not having to pay his medical bills.

My father was named apparently after Archie as Arthur James. (Never called Archie though!)

I think i may see if i can visit with my aunty Peggy for more information.

Thank you again for all your help. :)

So just never mind me here, I'm on the trail of a wild theory, they come with no guarantees, but some of 'em are danged good.

I was down the wrong rabbit hole there though. Needed more details from the 1911, which I don't pay for, so I drug my favourite looker-upper, the fabulous FannyByGaslight, over to do me a lookup. Turns out John and the kids were all born in Hayle, Cornwall, and Elizabeth and her uncle John Price were born in Newport, Monmouthshire. They were married 9 years. (FBG has sent on the original 1911 image.)

(And Cornwall is mine own favourite place for searching. The two men, father John Mills and uncle John Price, are engineers in a tin smelting works. Tin is Cornwall, and copper. Two generations earlier, my grx2 grfather started out as an engine man in a Cornwall mine, and ended up either owning a mine or fronting for somebody's as an agent ... then going bankrupt ... etc. ...)

Marriages Jun 1901
BRANKLEY Elizabeth Ann Redruth 5c 360A
MILLS John Richard Redruth 5c 360a

Births Dec 1879
Mills John Richards Redruth 5c 226

Births Dec 1881
BRANKLEY Elizabeth Ann Newport M. 11a 188


And now ... the stage is set ... we search for births ...




Births Sep 1906
Mills Arthur James O Redruth 5c 190




So ... how do you like my wild theory so far??


Births Mar 1905
Mills John Redruth 5c 189

Births Mar 1909
MILLS Ernest Rowe Redruth 5c 187

Births Dec 1901
Mills Elizabeth Ann Redruth 5c 203
(I'm betting "Dizzie" is Lizzie)


???

Just because I'm liking my theory, I'm going to play with it. ;)


1891 -- John had a brother named Arthur J:

Edwin Mills 49
Annie M Mills 48
Edwin J Mills 21
Robert Mills 19
John R Mills 16
Arthur J Mills 9
Annie M Mills 7
Celia M Mills 4

Civil parish: Phillack
Registration district: Redruth
County/Island: Cornwall

1891 has him born in Phillack; 1901 says Hayle.


Elizabeth in 1901:

James Brankley 50
Elizabeth A Brankley 47
Elizabeth Brankley 19
Diana Brankley 16
Martha Brankley 14
Keziah Brankley 14
Edith Brankley 12
Florrie Brankley 10
Ernest R Brankley 4

Civil parish: Phillack
Registration district: Redruth
County/Island: Cornwall


And I go no farther,
(a) because these people could be totally urelated,
and
(b) because if they aren't, I'm not going to spoil your fun!


Fingers crossed ... because for one thing there are people here at GR with John Richard Mills born in Hayle and all his siblings (but not his kids, unfortunately) in their trees.
- edit - and somebody has Elizabeth Brankley born in Newport and a couple of her siblings, too.

Because you're undoubtedy asleep now, and I'll be asleep for a while after you see this (unless I go to sleep too early tonight after working w/o sleep last night, then wake up too early tomorrow ...):

Next steps, as they say in the bureaucracy.

If you think this theory is worth pursuing, then you need data to build a picture, that either will or won't pan out.

The 1906 Arthur James Mills birth cert.

That will give you an exact date of birth. If he died after 1969, and as long as the informant knew the right info, his date of birth should be on his death certificate and in the GRO index. It's searchable by date of birth at Ancestry. Finding the death of *this* AJM, and possibly gleaning info from his death certificate, can help rule him out or keep him in the running.

Along with your dad's birth and marriage certificates.

I'm still not seeing a good candidate for this AJM's death. There's an Arthur Mills born in August 1906 who died in Leeds in 1969, but that's about the closest. The birth certificate could help a lot.

Well in my opinion its a pretty good Wild Theory,as most of Janeys are on the whole, and after being woken up,dragged out of bed and asked to do "lookups"in the middle of the night she had best be right,again........

Most certainly need that A J Mills birth to search the deaths indexes...

Thanky you for the Thanky JC.

Fanny takes her dues with pleasure.:)

Ladies i can hardly breathe!

I feel like i am going to explode! I'm going into Liverpool on Thursday for the birth certificate for my dad and then to Southport on Monday for the marriage certificate. I would love to go beforehand but commitments just don't allow for the time to do it.

I'm going to do the searches now. :)

I'm totally new to this searching so bear with me ladies and thank you so much for all your help. I cannot believe just how helpful u have both been, especially Janey who has been a diamond and restored my faith!

Big huge thank you xx

I'll PM you my email address - when you email me there I'll send on the 1911 census image FBG sent me.

Little bits of luck can make all the difference -- finding a 4-yr-old Archie Mills in West Derby in 1911 whose real name was Arthur James Mills -- a big coincidence at least! We can only cross fingers that there will be some way of determining whether it was just coincidence, or is really him.

Just adding something else that fits in - since Archie relocated to Birmingham c1940.

John Richard Mills, father of Arthur James Mills who was Archie in the 1911 census, was born in Q4 1879.

Name: John R Mills
Death Registration Month/Year: 1948
Age at death (estimated): 68
> Registration district: Birmingham
Inferred County: Warwickshire
Volume: 9c
Page: 346

I checked the image - the death was registered in Q3 1948, so matches perfectly for age with a birth in Q4 1879.


FBG has checked the details of a passenger record at findmypast for me. The 1940 date just seems to fit with the timeline.



Name: A J MILLS
Date of departure: 11 September 1940
Port of departure: Liverpool
Passenger destination port: Halifax, Canada
Passenger destination: Halifax, Canada

Date of Birth:
Age: Adult
Marital status:
Sex: Male
>>> Occupation: Ord Seaman
Passenger recorded on: Page 5 of 31


FBG thinks it is a troop ship.

Recalling how it just hasn't been possible to find a death recordin England to match Arthur James Mills born 1906 in Cornwall ... I had a look in Canada at a site called Last Post. It is maintained by the Canadian Legion, and contains death notices for all former Canadian and Commonwealth servicepeople whose deaths come to the Legion's attention. There are two possibilities.


Arthur MILLS
Date Deceased: In July, 1991
Age:
Service Information
Service Number:
Units:
Period of Service: World War 2, Regular Force
Legion Branch Information
Member Title:
Legion Branch: Rose City Branch
Location: Wetland, Ontario

That should read Welland.


Archie MILLS
Date Deceased: June 13, 1995
Age:
Service Information
Service Number: G5144
Units: 2nd Div.
Period of Service:
Legion Branch Information
Member Title:
Legion Branch: Miramichi Branch
Location: Newcastle, New Brunswick


There is a current Archie Mills telephone listing in Miramichi. It is remotely conceivable that this Archie's widow is stil living and has maintained the phone listing in his name.

Many trees on Amcestry with this family.

James Brankley 1851-1910 Monmouthsire married Elizabeth Ann Ponsford 1854 Newport-1919 Liverpool.

Elizabeth Ann Brankley 29/11/1881 died Liverpool 1929 married John Richard Mills1901
They had Elizabeth Ann 1901
Richard James 1903 died 1909 in redruth
John 1/1/1905 Mills Row Hayle Cornwall this is probably Jack on 1911 census.

Maryb

Ah, so the people with those trees don't know about / what happened to son Archie/Arthur James.

Which also tends to suggest that he is our man. ;)

The births of Elizabeth Ann and John (Jack) are the ones I posted on page 2 of this thread. I did see the Richard James birth in Redruth but didn't trace him. And there was also Ernest, the youngest in 1911.

There were also these births after the 1911 census:

Births Dec 1911
Mills Florence A Brankley W. Derby 8b 629

Births Sep 1914
Mills Edith C Brankley W. Derby 8b 686

If any of the tree owners are direct descendants of Mills and Brankley, they could have some info about Archie/AJ. I suspect that the people who have the Brankley and Mills families here at GR may be among the Ancestry tree owners.

Debbie has a busy week she says, but she will be back!

I looked for my post not expecting any further replies which is why i didn't find it straight away!

Thank you ladies, i am soooo excited. I think this could be HIM!

I will search again on GR :)

I just wondered what is GRO short for? Probably obvious but i'm not sure.

Again, many, many thanks for all your hard work!!!

Janey,

I have just read your post about the possible widow in Canada! Oh i can't believe how much work you have done and achieved on this request.

I can't thank you enough for everything you and the other ladies who have helped out have done.

I am pretty new to this searching and wish i had been able to do more to help. I have a good feeling about what has come up.

Off to do some searching again and see what i can do! :)

Thank you, thank you all especially Janey! (you are a star!)

I think i am confusing myself now but i have had a reply from a lady whose family had an Archie Mills in her family tree born 1909.

Hi Debbie,

Really sorry, but this is a different Archie from the one in my tree. Mine was my Grandfather's brother and was Archie Sands Mills (I think it was short for Archibald).

All the best in your search.
Good luck!

Fran.

So are we still thinking the AJM is still John Richard Mills' son? He was born in 1906 right? LOL i keep losing myself in all the different dob. It will help when i get a printer at the wkend because all this juggling back and forth is not helping me!

I'm off now to check family trees. :)

Ah, FBG had wondered whether you were a rank newby and whether we should tell you about ordering certificates. ;)

GRO = General Register Office, and it's that index of registrations we're searching (at FreeBMD and Ancestry).

http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/

is where you order certificates on line. You said you are going here and there to get your dad's birth and marriage certificates, which is not a bad idea if you want to get them quick, but for Arthur James O Mills 1906 you'll need to order it, unless you feel like a jaunt to Cornwall. You can just order the others that way at the same time, unless you're very eager to get them and/or go for a drive.


Now, that business about Canada is extreeeemely tenuous. There could have been any number of AJ Mills-s who went to Canada on a troop ship in 1940 - especially younger ones. And there were and are several Archie Mills-s in Canada whom I've found by googling around -- for instance, it seems to be a name passed on in a family in Newfoundland. Since Atlantic Canada (including New Brunswick) has a significant Scots heritage, an Archie Mills there could well come from a long-established Scottish family, for instance.

I am really feeling confident about the 1906 birth / 1911 census being your man. After that, we're still at the point of wild speculation at the moment. And I do mean pretty wild. It's just that when someone drops out of sight in one place, it is worth looking for them somewhere else.

It will be good to have his exact birthdate to work with, from his birth certificate. Even if he happened to have changed his name (you would be surprised how many do -- my mum's surname, for instance, is totally fake, dating only from her grandfather, I discovered), a birthdate (and more ruling in/out research) could identify him.

And of course, you are very welcome. I started out figuring this was a pretty hopeless task, and just trying to collect every shred of info you had in case it might help. A lucky break, the 1911 census (and yes, yes, my looking for and finding it!), was key.

Oh, speaking of looking for and finding -- I just saw your PM. And I've explained "My threads". Newbies everywhere!

Crossed in the post.

Your Archie/AJ was born in 1906. I'm pretty sure nobody has him in their tree here.

The people in trees are his parents:

Richard (John) Mills, 1879, Hayle, Cornwall
Elizabeth (Ann) Brankley, 1881, Newport, Monmouthshire

The people who have them also have their siblings as shown in the 1891 census households I posted on page 2. But people who have Mills don't have Brankley, and vice versa, so the GR members would not be descendants of Archie's parents, but are maybe descendants of brothers/sisters of Archie's parents.

They are probably unlikely to have info about Archie and his siblings, but you never know.


Oh, another tip, for reading your thread.

Go to page 1.
At the top, it shows pages 1, 2 and 3.
Right click on page 2.
From the menu you get, left-click on "open in new tab".
Do the same for page 3.

Then you have all 3 pages open at once and can easily toggle back and forth from one to another, rather than having to reopen a page every time you want to read it and lose the one you're on.

Janey,

I am a complete newbie!

I do catch on pretty quicky tho and thank you for the help on finding my thread! I was getting quite frustrated with myself!

Yes if did seem like a pointless task to even me until you came along and became my fairy godmother! I will order the certificates as i also have a sick son atm as well as mother! Grrr :)

I crashed last night as soon as i got home so i didn't check. Shame!

:)

May as well look at the other children.



Looking at the Ancestry trees Mary referred to -- none seems to belong to an immediate family member.

First one has children EA, RJ and John, and no further info about them.
Second one has no info about Elizabeth Ann Brankley beyond birth and death.
Third one has same as first. (A lot of people do just copy other people's trees.)
And the other two (tree is called the same surname as the third above) have nothing more.

So they seem to be distantish relations.

There are more trees with John Richard Mills. Even less info in them.


Those trees could be helpful if you decide this Archie/AJ is your man, for ancestral info. Personally, I trust nothing in trees at Ancestry and always do the research myself and compare the results.


For the other kids, the names are probably too common to find marriages with any confidence. So it isn't worth doing that until you have got as sure as you can that at least you're barking up the right tree.

The only children shown in trees at Ancestry are Richard James (who seems to have died before the 1911), John and Elizabeth Ann.

Oh yes -- did you look at the census image? They reported 6 children in total, 4 living. So there was one other childhood death before 1911.

And one death in infancy after the census:

Births Sep 1914
Mills Edith C Brankley W. Derby 8b 686
Deaths Sep 1914
Mills Edith C 0 West Derby 7b 548

Okay, next lesson. ;) Never send by PM what can be put in the thread! Makes me/us crazy ...

Archie's "record card" - no clue, me. My people were all in Canada for that war, remember! And WWII records are not accessible now, so confirming anything about his service, if he served, would be next to impossible.


Name: Ernest Rowe Mills
Birth Date: 1 Jan 1906
Death Registration Month/Year: Dec 1993
Age at death (estimated): 87
Registration district: Liverpool
Inferred County: Lancashire
Register number: H10D
District and Subdistrict: 0251H
Entry number: 118

The year of birth is wrong (it was 1909) but the birthdate matches Q1. In my experience it's not uncommon for people born early in the century to have their ages wrong (or for their families to have them wrong). My grandfather didn't find out he ws born in 1901, not 1900, til he retired. And he is the only Ernest Rowe Mills birth.

The informant's name on that death certificate might be a family member. There's an Ernest R Mills marriage in Liverpool in 1933 to Victoria Richardson. The death certificate info could lead you to living family.

If the 1933 marriage was him, this would be his wife's death:

Name: Victoria Mills
Birth Date: 24 Jan 1912
Death Registration Month/Year: 1983
Registration district: Liverpool
Inferred County: Merseyside
Volume: 36
Page: 0802

The marriage certificate would rule him in/out by age and father's name:

Name: Ernest R Mills
Spouse Surname: Richardson
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1933
Registration district: Liverpool
Registration county (inferred): Lancashire
Volume Number: 8b
Page Number: 128

There are 8 Richardson-Mills births in Liverpool 1934-1948.
- edit - I searched trees here at GR for all the names. There are two possibilities: Dorothy 1934, but there was another DM born that year who is probably the one in the tree here; and Robert 1948, of whom there was only one born that year, but I suspect error rather than match.


You did want to spend your entire savings on certificates, right?