Find Ancestors

hI can any one help me i am tring to fill in the gaps in my tree on my fathers side I would like imformation on a EDITH ELLEN DAVIS NEE MANNING the address i have is 3.Penybryn gilfach goch Sorry i do not have her birthdate She gave birth to my father DONALD DAVID AMOS"DAVIES BORN AT THE SAME ADDRESS His birthdate is 28th feb 1915
Is there anyone that can help
Thank you
Brenda Oxley nee AMOS

Brenda

Is this his parents marriage

Edith Ellen Manning
married
Oliver Henry Davies
Pontypridd
Vol 11a
Page 679

Yvonne

really need her fathers name

sorry do not know that
For some unknown reason it is not down on the birth cert
Brenda

does it not give the date of marrage
Regards
Brenda

The marriage was in Q1 1903 -- so the only Edith Ellen Manning old enough to have been marrying then (assuming yours was registered with that complete name) was:


Name: Edith Ellen Manning
Year of Registration: 1880
Quarter of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec
District: Banbury
County: Northamptonshire, Oxfordshire, Warwickshire
Volume: 3a
Page: 773


That marriage certificate, which certainly looks likely to be the right one, would give the spouses' ages and fathers' names.

Two Oliver Henry Davies-s were registered in Pontypridd at around the right time: 1884 (in Ystradyfodwg in 1901) and 1885 (in Llanharan in 1901) (by my guess) -- although the one in 1880 in Llanfyllin might be a better bet.


This looks like that Edith in 1901:

Name: Edith Manning
Age: 20
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1881
Relation: Servant
Gender: Female
Where born: Banbury, Oxfordshire, England
Civil Parish: Leamington Priors
Ecclesiastical parish: Leamington Priors All Saints
Town: Leamington
County/Island: Warwickshire
Country: England


I'm having a heck of a time finding her in the intervening years -- but here's an interesting one:


Name: Thomas Manning
[Charles Manning]
Age: 6
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1885
Relation: Grandson
Gender: Male
Where born: Banbury, Oxfordshire, England

Civil Parish: Southam
Ecclesiastical parish: Southam
Town: Southam
County/Island: Warwickshire
Country: England

Registration district: Southam
Sub-registration district: Southam
ED, institution, or vessel: 22

Thomas Manning 6
Brown Young 57
Charles Young 21
Fanny Young 22
Margaret Young 57
William Young 19


The Ancestry user has added this correction/comment:

"Charles Thomas Manning was known to his family as "Thomas" as the census information shows but his birth name was Charles. In the 1891 census he is living with his grandfather."

He might be a brother of Edith Ellen, and it might be worth contacting that person.


The censuses have a very few mannings born in Banbury. One is this fellow in 1891, living with his married sister and widowed mother:

Name: Alfred Manning
Birth: abt 1843 - Banbury, Oxfordshire, England
Residence: 1891 - Birmingham, Birmingham, Warwickshire, England


Oh, here we are -- Edith in 1881:


Name: Edith Ellen Manning
Relation: Granddaughter
Gender: Female
Where born: Neithrop, Oxfordshire, England

Civil Parish: Neithrop
County/Island: Oxfordshire
Country: England

Street address: 2 Bretch Farm Cottage Broughton Rd

Registration district: Banbury
Sub-registration district: Banbury
ED, institution, or vessel: 17

John Bidwell 19
Edith Ellen Manning
Susan Manning 18
William Manning 60
William Manning 15
Sarah Panting 18
Mary Ann Savin 36


Might need the birth certificate to sort out her parents -- if that is indeed your Edith.

Thank you for your help but edith and oliver were all born in the rhonnda married there and then came to Blackpool in or around 1922
They were never in Banbury
So it is back to the drawing board
Thank you
Regards
Brenda

Ah, I long for the day when people who ask for help finding their ancestors will actually tell us *what they already know* first ...

I'm not understanding this:


Q: really need her fathers name

A: sorry do not know that
For some unknown reason it is not down on the birth cert


?? Whose birth certificate? Edith's?

If you have Edith's birth cert, you know what year she was born, as well as where -- and you say she was born in the Rhonnda. Just think of the time I wasted looking for her, if you had this info all along ... and *still* haven't provided it!!!

As far as I can tell, there was no Edith Manning born 1870-1900 in that region. (If she had her son in 1915 she could have been born as late as 1890ish, but if she is the Edith who married in 1903 she could have been born as early as 1870ish and still been of an age to have a child in 1915.)

Hopefully, if you get that 1903 marriage certificate, it will tell you something.


Now, if you have Edith's birth cert, and it shows no father's name, then the reason is that her mother wasn't married. And so if that 1903 marriage was your Oliver and Edith, it likely won't show a father's name for her either -- or, if it does, it could be her grandfather's name, for instance, which could be useful in itself.

Just fyi -- I did a search at FreeBMD (we can all do this) for
surname Dav*s (to include Davies and Davis)
married
surname Manning
anywhere
1895 to 1915

-- the results will show you where the surname Dav*s appears on the same page as the GRO with the surname Manning. Eliminating the results where the Dav*is was a woman, here you are:



Marriages Mar 1895 (>99%)
Davies William Liverpool 8b 120
Davis George William Islington 1b 310

Marriages Sep 1895 (>99%)
Davies Thomas Charles Lambeth 1d

Marriages Dec 1895 (>99%)
Davies Thomas Snead Bristol 6a

Marriages Sep 1896 (>99%)
Davis William Lewis Shoreditch 1c

Marriages Sep 1897 (>99%)
Davis Thomas Shoreditch 1c 214

Marriages Mar 1898 (>99%)
Davies Samuel Cardiff 11a 306

Marriages Dec 1898 (>99%)
DAVIES James Newent 6a 515

Marriages Jun 1900 (>99%)
Davies Thomas Rees Crickhowell 11b 171

Marriages Jun 1902 (>99%)
Davies William Kensington 1a 369

Marriages Dec 1902 (>99%)
Davis Arthur James Dover 2a 2347

Marriages Mar 1903 (>99%)
Davies Oliver Henry Pontypridd 11a 679

Marriages Sep 1903 (>99%)
Davies William St. Asaph 11b 497

Marriages Sep 1904 (>99%)
Davis Henry Kendal 10b 1251

Marriages Dec 1904 (>99%)
Davis Alfred Chelsea 1a 817
Davis Thomas Dover 2a 2305

Marriages Sep 1906 (>99%)
DAVIES George Henry Merthyr T. 11a 1226

Marriages Dec 1907 (>99%)
DAVIS William John Hull 9d 650

Marriages Jun 1908 (>99%)
Davies Thomas Pontypridd 11a 1124

Marriages Jun 1911 (>99%)
Davis John Mansfield 7b 251

Marriages Sep 1911 (>99%)
Davis William F Staines 3a 6

Marriages Dec 1911 (>99%)
Davies Coralier M Newport M 11a 374

Marriages Jun 1913 (>99%)
DAVIS Thomas Manning Bristol 6a 45

Marriages Sep 1913 (>99%)
Davies Robert P Manning Hawarden 11b 410


You can do that the other way around if you're interested -- search for Manning who (may have) married Dav*s. There are three male Mannings who (may have) married a Dav*s in Pontypridd after 1900.

The only apparent possibility for Edith Ellen Manning and Oliver Henry Davies is that 1903 marriage. The transcription of years up to 1915 is not quite complete; there's always a possibility that yours is still missing, but it would be unusual if the entries for both bride and groom were still not transcribed.

Sorry i do not have ediths birth certificate i found out her name on my dads birth certificate her husband oliver davies was nit the father of my dad
I was just assuming. wrongly that she was born in wales
Regards
Brenda

It was a oliver henry davies that married edith manning and sah was married to him at the time my dad was born in other words she had an affair
Brenda

edith that married oliver in 1903 and was born in 1870 ish she would be in her late 20 or early 30es
That is not to yuong to have a child
The age fits with the man who fathered him he was in his 30s
Brenda

I think I'm getting more confused, Brenda! But maybe it's getting clearer ...

If your Edith had a child in 1915, she was born before 1900 and maybe as early as 1870 -- she could theoretically have been 15 or 45 when she had Daniel. (If she was born 1870ish she would have been in her 40s in 1915, not her 30s.)

The Edith who married in 1903 could not have been born later than about 1887 -- she would have had to be 16 when she married, at least.

So if we assume that your Edith married Oliver in 1903 and then had a child 12 years later, she must have been born

- no later than 1887 (to be married in 1903)
*and*
- no earlier than 1870 (to be having a child in 1915).

Probably later than 1870, and earlier than 1887.

So the one I found, born 1880/1881ish, does fit the time frame well. She would have been in her early 20s when she married in 1903, and her mid-30s when she had Daniel in 1915. Matching, as you say, the age of Daniel's father.

(Btw, I think every one of us has unmarried parents somewhere in at least one of our families! One of my gr-grmothers had a child before marriage, one of my grx2 grmothers in another family did too ... and that's only the ones I know about / have discovered! I'm pretty sure one set of my grx2 grandparents were never married -- oh, and another set of grx2 grandparents married when they were 45 after all their kids were born, presumably because one of them was already married. And then of course in this century, neither I nor my 3 siblings has ever married, since we don't hold with that nonsense, but my parents have 3 grandchildren!)


So. Here's what I'd do.

Order up the Manning-Davies marriage cert:

Name: Edith Ellen Manning
Year of Registration: 1903
Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
District: Pontypridd
County: Glamorgan, Mid Glamorgan
Volume: 11a
Page: 679

Order up the Manning birth certificate:

Name: Edith Ellen Manning
Year of Registration: 1880
Quarter of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec
District: Banbury
County: Northamptonshire, Oxfordshire, Warwickshire
Volume: 3a
Page: 773

and see whether the Manning father's name matches!

Thank you i know it seems confusing but it is getting clearer at last!! Please let me say my(dads)mum edith and my dads father nathanial, were both married but not to each other
You think this is confusing my mums was till i got that clearer
Will do as you sugest
Regards
Brenda