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Help! Trying to find information about the father of Martha Jane Roberts (born 1891) who married Herbert Owens in 1913. He is listed on the marriage certificate as John Roberts deceased and was married to Ellen Roberts who remarried and became Ellen Barker.

Some locations would really help! Those names are too common to be able to identify your people in the censuses without a bit more info.

Do you know Ellen Barker's second husband's given name? When did they marry?

Ellen remarried in1899 to a John Barker who was born in Bolton c1857. Ellen was born in Conway in 1865.

Well, Doug ... I've been kinda trying, but I just can't do much of anything with that very scant info!

There were a couple of dozen John Barker-s and Ellen Roberts-s who married in 1899. Any idea where? The idea is to know where to look for them in 1901.

I don't know where Conway is (I'm in Canada), so that I'd know what to look for as a place of birth if something slightly different were given, as it often is. Google maps finds me Conwy in Wales, but no Conway in the UK.

Ah, okay, if I search for the birth of an Ellen in 1865 in Conway, I see that it's in Caernarvonshire/Denbighshire.

The only Ellen born in 1865 was Ellen Jones -- but census DOBs are seldom truly accurate. There were four Ellens in 1864, for instance.

Here we go! I was looking in my *English* census window. ;)


Name: Ellen Barker
Age in 1901: 36
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1865
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: John
Gender: Female
Where born: Conway, Cornwall, England

Name: Martha J Roberts
Age in 1901: 9
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1892
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: John
Mother's Name: Ellen
Gender: Female
Where born: Stansty Wrexham

Civil Parish: Stansty
Ecclesiastical parish: Rhosddu St James
County/Island: Denbighshire
Country: Wales

Registration district: Wrexham
Sub-registration district: Wrexham
ED, institution, or vessel: 29
Household schedule number: 98

Household Members:
Name Age
Ellen Barker 36
John Barker 43
William Genuw 19
Gladys Roberts 6
John W Roberts 15
Martha J Roberts 9
Phoebe A Roberts 12


Alrighty. Now, you see, we have the details for searching for Ellen in 1891.

Or maybe just finding Martha Jane's birth:


Name: Martha Jane Roberts
Year of Registration: 1891
Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
District: Wrexham (1837-1974)
County: Cheshire, Denbighshire, Flintshire
Volume: 11b
Page: 277


Might that be it?? Probably worth shelling out for!


Okay, we know that Martha Jane had two siblings who should be in the 1891 census: John c1886 and Phoebe c1889.


And here they all are. Will you do the drum roll?


Name: William Le Roberts
***[William Lloyd Roberts]***
Age: 33
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1858
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Ellen
Gender: Male
Where born: Llanberis, Caernarvonshire, Wales

Civil Parish: Stansty
Ecclesiastical parish: Rhosddn
Town: Rhosddn
County/Island: Denbighshire
Country: Wales

Registration district: Wrexham
Sub-registration district: Wrexham
ED, institution, or vessel: 38

Household Members:
Name Age
Edward Davies 71
Ellen Le Roberts 26
John W Le Roberts 4
Margaret E Le Roberts 7
Phoebe A Le Roberts 2
William Le Roberts 33


See the name in square brackets? That means that you have just had the amazing incredible good luck to hit a record at Ancestry that has been corrected by a family member:

Well, one hopes that it's a family member. The correction says only: The transcription has wrongly interpreted the inserted "Ll" after William, as "Le" . The family name is Roberts, not " Le Roberts"

If you're not subscribed, I'd be happy to pass on your email address to that person, if you PM me with it.


Otherwise, I'd order up that Martha Jane birth cert and see whether her mother was Ellen, which will give you Ellen's birth surname -- if that Martha Jane is the right one -- and Martha Jane's father's name and occupation. I think we've found 'em, though. I say "we" ... ;)

So I do a little searchy in the trees here at GR, and find that of course you knew Martha's place of birth all along. I have no idea why you wouldn't have dislosed all the info you had about the person whose father you are trying to identify ...

And haven't you considered ordering up that birth cert??

You may also know that there are two people who have her in their trees as born in Rhosddu, Wrexham / Stansty, Wrexham, in 1892.

They both also have William Roberts born 1857 in Caernarvonshire, btw.

Kathryn - a million thanks - you clearly know your stuff and where to look - thanks for adding so many more pieces tothe jigsaw known as my family tree- happy hunting!

Doug