Find Ancestors

my life, i cant take it all in, Bless all of you so much, i have not found a bean and looked till cuckoo, and you beautiful people have accomplished all of this, many many thanks to you all, but what a scandel!! i will have to read it all a few times to take it in, bless you xxxx

1891 census.
Alice Kember 1879 Kensington
scholar at Kensington and Chelsea district school and cottage homes.

One more bit ... looks like John in 1891:


Name: John Kimber
Age: 28
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1863
Relation: Head
Gender: Male
Where born: Marylebone, London, England

Civil Parish: St Marylebone
Ecclesiastical parish: St Matthew Friday Street
County/Island: London
Country: England

Occupation: Decorator
Condition as to marriage: Single

Registration district: Marylebone
Sub registration district: St John
ED, institution, or vessel: 2

George Kimber 32 -- it says 25, if you ask me
John Kimber 28


William Boswell was a painter in 1901. Could have been some connection.

That John and George in 1871:


Name: John Kimber
Age: 11
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1860
Relation: Son
Father's Name: James
Mother's Name: Anne
Gender: Male
Where born: Marylebone, Middlesex, England
Civil Parish: St Marylebone
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary
County/Island: London
Country: England

Registration district: Marylebone
Sub registration district: St Mary
ED, institution, or vessel: 15
Household schedule number: 268

Mary Kidd 76
Anne Kimber 40
Annie Kimber 12
>> George Kimber 7
James Kimber 56
James Kimber 13
>> John Kimber 11
Mary A Kimber 5
William Kimber 9


Name: John Kimber
Year of Registration: 1860
Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
District: Marylebone (1837-1901)
County: London, Middlesex
Volume: 1a
Page: 405


Can't see a death for John before that Sarah-William marriage, but also can't see him in 1901.

I wonder:


KIMBER Annie 1861 F 1906 Glasgow Canada Quebec
KIMBER John 1861 M 1906 Glasgow Canada Quebec


Wandering off into wild hypothesis -- 1901:

Name: John Kember
Age: 40
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1861
Relationship: Son-in-law
Spouse's name : Janet
Gender: Male
Where born: England
Registration Number: 685/2
Registration district: St Andrew
Civil Parish: Edinburgh St Mary
County: Midlothian
Address: 10a Union St
Occupation: General Labourer
ED: 92
Household schedule number: 94
Line: 17
Roll: CSSCT1901_375

David Kember 6
Janet Kember 33
John Kember 40
* Alfred McMillan 14
Isabella McMillan 72

* Name: Alfred McMillan
Age: 14
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1887
Relationship: Grandson
Father's Name: John
Mother's Name: Janet


But now I really have to quit!

And 1881:

Name: Sarah Kember
Age: 20
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1861
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: John
Gender: Female
Where born: Strand, Middlesex, England

-- it actually says "ditto, Stroud", if you ask me

Name: John Kember
Age: 20
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1861
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Sarah
Gender: Male
Where born: St Marylebone, Middlesex, England
Occupation: Gas Fitter

Name: Alice M.F. Kember
Age: 2
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1879
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: John
Mother's Name: Sarah
Gender: Female
Where born: Hammersmith, Middlesex, England

Civil Parish: Harmmersmith
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street address: Gayford Rd 27 Hawthorne Terr
Condition as to marriage: Married

Registration district: Fulham
Sub registration district: St Paul Hammersmith
ED, institution, or vessel: 33

Alice M.F. Kember 2
John Kember 20
Sarah Kember 20


And another GR mystery bites the dust!!

Oh look --


Marriages Sep 1878
Edwards Ann Chelsea 1a 530
HULKES Edward Chelsea 1a 530
>> KEMBER John Chelsea 1a 530
>> Williams Sarah Chelsea 1a 530

Ya know, dang it, I was going to check here and there for KEMBERs, it being an obvious first possibility, and I wandered off to go argue with some loony gun nuts in the US instead ...

Damn thing is I did check 81 and 91 for *any* Sarah born 1862ish in STROUD. I fogot to look for STROOD.

;)

Good show!

1891 census.
Latitia C Bourne widow1839 Kingstown St Vincent occ living on own account
Edith L Bourne 1869 Georgetown,W J
Mabel W Bourne 1863 British Guiana
Sarah Kember married 1862 Strood Gloucestershire occ domestic servant.

address 44 Powes Sq Kensington

Heres a birth
Ethel Kember 1896 sept qt Richmond Sry Surrey gro ref 2a 393

Heres the marriage to confirm Kathryns findings.

William Charles Boswell 1899 sept qt Richmond Sry. Surrey gro ref 2a 942. Other name on the page Sara Alice KEMBER.
Now we all now about mistranscriptions on bmds so this is likely them

You need to get this marriage cert to confirm the names of the fathers if they are on the cert. Also for names of witnesses which might help you. If William was only about 16 he would need his parents permission or he just lied about his age.

I'm not having much luck identifying William Boswell in the 1881 and 1891 -- except for this possible; in 1891:


Name: William Boswell
Age: 9
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1882
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Charles
Mother's Name: Mary
Gender: Male
Where born: Surbiton, Surrey, England

Civil Parish: Kingston
Ecclesiastical parish: Christchurch
County/Island: Surrey
Country: England

Registration district: Kingston
Sub registration district: Kingston
ED, institution, or vessel: 27

Alice Boswell 6
Charles Boswell 48 - Gardener
Edward Boswell 11 - Errand Boy
George Boswell 14 - Printer's Assistant
Mary Boswell 42 - Laundress
Rose Boswell 18 - Dressmaker
Sarah Boswell 21 - Dressmaker
William Boswell 9


Right location.
Father's name Charles matches with middle initial "C" in 1901.
Sister Rose matches with daughter's name.


And how it kinda looks is that William was considerably *younger* than he said in 1901, with Sarah being considerably *older* than she said.

And while possibly not exact in the details, it could all fit with what you said:

"my pops would not talk about his family shame, but he did say they were romanies and sarah was a dweller, so the family disowned william"

in the sense that there was some scandal there.

It actually looks like Sarah's family was quite respectable, but Sarah herself may have been somewhat less so! All of her children seem to have been given to her parents at birth.

And when she and William hooked up, she would have been about 35 and he about 16 ...

And in 1891:


Name: William Kimber
Age: 4
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1887
Relation: Grandson
Gender: Male
Where born: Notting Hill, London, England

Civil Parish: Kensington
Ecclesiastical parish: St Clement
County/Island: London
Country: England

Registration district: Kensington
Sub registration district: Kensington Town
ED, institution, or vessel: 33b

>> George Kimber 6
>> William Kimber 4
Amelia Williams 15
Arthur Williams 11
Ellen Williams 24
Emily A Williams 21
George Williams 49
Rose F Williams 18
Sarah L Williams 50


Largish family -- all the Williams children are children of George & Sarah.

Where's Sarah Williams Kimber?? (if Kimber she was)

No idea!

Name: Rose Amelia Boswell
Year of Registration: 1900
Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
District: Richmond Sry
County: Surrey
Volume: 2a
Page: 426

No Ethel Boswell born in Surrey c1897.

And here are William and Sarah in 1901, with Sarah underestimating her age by 10 years:


Name: Sarah A Boswell
Age: 29
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1872
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: William C
Gender: Female
Where born: Gloucester, Gloucestershire, England

Civil Parish: Richmond
Ecclesiastical parish: Holy Trinity
County/Island: Surrey
Country: England

Registration district: Richmond
Sub registration district: Richmond
ED, institution, or vessel: 14
Household schedule number: 77

>>> Ethel Boswell 4
>>> Rose A Boswell 1
Sarah A Boswell 29
William C Boswell >> 24 - Painter

No wonder!


Name: William C Boswell
Age: 24
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1877
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Sarah A
Gender: Male
Where born: Kingston, Surrey, England

Name: Ethel Boswell
Age: 4
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1897
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: William C
Mother's Name: Sarah A
Gender: Female
Where born: Richmond, Surrey, England

Name: Rose A Boswell
Age: 1
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1900
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: William C
Mother's Name: Sarah A
Gender: Female
Where born: Richmond, Surrey, England

That household in 1881 -- same address, same occupation for George; Sarah L in 1901 seems to be Louise in 1881:


Name: George Williams
Age: 37
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1844
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Louise
Gender: Male
Where born: Stroud, Gloucestershire, England

Civil Parish: Kensington
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street address: 11 Silchester Rd
Condition as to marriage: Married
Occupation: Cabinet Manufacturer

Registration district: Kensington
Sub registration district: Kensington Town
ED, institution, or vessel: 35a

Alice Williams 4
Arthur Williams 2
Emily Williams 10
George Williams 37
George Williams 15
Louise Williams 38
Louise Williams 14
Mary Williams 5
Rosey Williams 7


Here's the household in 1871:


Name: George Williams
Age: 28
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1843
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Louisa
Gender: Male
Where born: Stroud, Gloucestershire, England
Civil Parish: Kensington
Ecclesiastical parish: St Clement
County/Island: London
Country: England

Registration district: Kensington
Sub registration district: Kensington Town
ED, institution, or vessel: 31a
Household schedule number: 233

Rd Brown 19
Eve Haynes 20
Ed Longhurst 33
Emily Williams 5 months
George Williams 28
George Williams 5
Louisa Williams 29
Louisa Williams 4
>>>> Sarah Williams 9


and I'm betting that's your Sarah Williams.


Name: Sarah Williams
Age: 9
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1862
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: George
Mother's Name: Louisa
Gender: Female
Where born: Stroud, Gloucestershire, England

Something.

In 1901:


Name: Dorothy Kimber
Age: 7
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1894
Relation: Granddaughter
Gender: Female
Where born: Notting Hill, London, England

Civil Parish: Kensington
Ecclesiastical parish: St Clement
County/Island: London
Country: England

Registration district: Kensington
Sub registration district: Kensington Town
ED, institution, or vessel: 39
Household schedule number: 71

Dorothy Kimber 7
William Kimber 14
George Williams 58
Sarah L Williams 59


A Dorothy Kimber with Williams grandparents.

Grandfather named George -- which was the name of a brother of Dorothy, per your info. Mother named Sarah, which was the name of Dorothy's mother.

Too coincidental to be coincidence?

yes i agree with you on that...

Shame we can't get much further on this...

Since the birth was pre 1926, the fact that a birth record for a possible twin can't be found, doesn't rule out the existence of a twin if it was still born

The time thing doesn;t always hold water, there have been incidences where the registrar just added the time to be overly efficient...

There have been a few people on here tripped up over that over the years !!

If there is a time against the date of birth then there was more than one child born alive at the birth. If however a mother had twins, one live born and one still born, then the live born twin will not have a time against the birth. I believe that until 1926 there were no registrations at all of a still born child. Having said that, again the early registrations are not consistent.

If a child lived even for a few seconds there should be both a birth registration and a death registration but I think in the early days that this wasn't always done.

that is a possibility i have no-one to ask , but i will follow all leads , , cheers