Find Ancestors

will do sorry i did not no how to do this i was and still am new lol again i have apologised innocent mistake no deceit intended

Thing is Simon, you really should have added to your original thread from last week then everyone would have seen all the information found on this so far.

If you start a new thread you should make people aware what has been found to date otherwise they will spend their time duplicating what you already had.

I have not been so well last few days so not on here, otherwise Id have noticed what was happening and added a note to your new thread before people had spent so much time duplicating info.

You can appreciate that some of the info takes literally hours to sort out so it can be upsetting to find that someone else has already covered that ground.

Anyway, you will be aware of this in the future :) You may want to look at the tips for newbies thread on Tips Board to help your research.

again i apologise i did ask you to come over to that site as you had very good info i really do appreciate what you have done i did not think it would upset you i was only showing my father what you had found as we are after all two people looking for the same answer i hope we can resolve this

My instinct is to delete every last pixel of it.

How you have offended me is by wasting my time, having me try to figure out your cryptic postings, me searching around in databases, all the while a group of people at another website were doing exactly the same thing for your father, who then posted some of my work at that other website ... without so much as giving me credit for the work.

These are human beings here, Simon and Rob. With lives. And other things to do with our time than waste it.

Nothing to do with the rules of this site or that site. Basic common ordinary good manners.

kathryn i apologise i do not no the rules on this site i did ask if you would come over to FTF as the information you have found is fantastic im not quite sure how i have offended you as your information along with others will help sort this mess out i hope you will continue to help plus you have come up with information i as i said my father has all the paper work

Yup, that was fascinating.

I'm not sure that I've ever felt that my time was exploited so badly.

Nice that I was given credit for that last bit when it was posted at the other place too ... not.

"thanx for help 2 date by the way my father has been in conversation with a couple of people on another site www.familytreeforum.com and they all have differnt theroys was wondering if you would like to have a look on there as all the info is there,"

How fascinating. I guess I may as well look and find that I have completely wasted my time ...

"marrige beatrice and frederick state frederick samuel bellamy as father."

Okay, so you knew already that Frances Beatrice Bellamy married George Ducker, and I spent time finding the marriage, by finding her in the 1901 census, for nothing?

Oh well. My fault for not looking at your tree, I suppose. Don't know why you couldn't have just put the info in the thread, since it's apparently in your tree, but there you are.

Something here may help.

But just for good measure. ;)

Here's that Fred Sr in the 1891 and 1901 censuses:


1891:

Name: Fredk Bellamy
Age: 36
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1855
Relation: Inmate
Gender: Male
Where born: Exeter, Devon, England

Civil Parish: St Sidwell
Ecclesiastical parish: St Matthew
Town: Exeter
County/Island: Devon
Country: England

Occupation: Labourer
Condition as to marriage: Single

Registration district: Exeter
Sub registration district: Exeter Eastern
ED, institution, or vessel: The Workhouse Exeter Union


1901:

Name: Fredk Bellamy
Age: 46
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1855
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Sarah
Gender: Male
Where born: Exeter, Devon, England

Civil Parish: Littleham
Ecclesiastical parish: Littleham St Margaret
Town: Exmouth
County/Island: Devon
Country: England

Occupation: Upholsterer
Condition as to marriage: Married
(but there doesn't seem to have been an actual marriage)

Registration district: St Thomas
Sub registration district: Exmouth
ED, institution, or vessel: 5
Household schedule number: 133

Fredk Bellamy 46
Sarah Bellamy 39


Ah, wait. This marriage?

Name: Frederick Bellamy
Year of Registration: 1894
Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
District: St Thomas
County: Devon
Volume: 5b
Page: 122

There is a spare bride on the page, but one of the brides is Sarah Mary Skinner.

Looks like she could indeed be the wife of Frederick in 1901; here is a matching Sarah Skinner in 1891:


Name: Sarah Skinner
Age: 29
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1862
Relation: Daughter
Mother's Name: Mary
Gender: Female
Where born: Inworth, Devon, England

Civil Parish: Littleham
Ecclesiastical parish: Littleham
Town: Exmouth
County/Island: Devon
Country: England


If you got that marriage certificate you might be able to confirm that he is the Frederick in question, by age and occupation, and get his father's name.

the problem is my father has all the certs and i have to keep ringing like i said there on FTF with all the info and with out question alot clearer than me lol

certs:

births for florance and frederick state father frederick samuel bellamy

marrige beatrice and frederick state frederick samuel bellamy as father.

kathryn i am having to get my son to bed now l"ittle leilo bellamy" hopefully we could discuss things futher and find out if frederick samuel bellamy is his ggg gf lol

thanx for help 2 date by the way my father has been in conversation with a couple of people on another site www.familytreeforum.com and they all have differnt theroys was wondering if you would like to have a look on there as all the info is there,

I'm kinda going to give up, Simon.

I do keep asking *specific* questions. You say:

"ellens children on marriage and birth certs state frederick samuel bellamy as the father"

Well, not Maud and Frances -- to your knowledge -- because you haven't seen their birth or marriage certs, right?


I think I'll leave you with

Maud's birth
Maud's marriage
Frances's marriage

all as in this thread

and let you see what they tell you. ;)

If you want to post that info for further investigation, just add a post to this thread and we who have posted in the thread will see that it has new info when we click on "my threads" (over on the left of the page).

I feel for you -- can't go back farther til you know the person to be looking back from -- and wish you luck!

Re that 1861 and 1871 Bellamy household with a Frederick in it as a child.

The eldest child Emma was born c1845. There is no Emma Bellamy birth to match, and I can't find her or the household in 1851 ...

and also ellens children on marriage and birth certs state frederick samuel bellamy as the father

Ahhhh

"yes because on one of the birth certs the farther is frederick samuel bellamy and there just so happens to be a frederick samuel bellamy in the same court in st sidwell exeter then in the workouse too much of a coincidence for her to have just made a name up"

Whose birth cert?

In the same court in St Sidwell *when*??

I don't see a Frederick Samuel/Saml/Sam/S Bellamy in Devon in any census!

ok thanx for all you help the reason why we think frederick samuel is the father is because on willies bith cert it has his name on it

Okay, here's what you said at the outset:

"on the marriage certs willie frederick put down father as samuel deceased so we were hoping that one of the girls could prove that frederick is the father"

So you're getting from somewhere, or just assuming, that the Frederick Bellamy in the workhouse in 1881 was named Frederick Samuel Bellamy. I don't know where you're getting it or why you're assuming it -- ??


Here, to be perfectly frank, is my surmise.

People made up fathers for their marriage certificates all the time, when their parents were not married. (And sometimes even just when their fathers had died young and they had no idea who they were.)

They usually made up someone with the same surname as themselves (which was generally their mother's birth surname). Sometimes they used the given name of their grandfather or an uncle, sometimes their own given name (so they were a junior).

I would think it is extremely likely that Ellen Jane Bellamy and Frederick Bellamy, both born in the mid-1850s, were cousins rather than lovers. And not both!

Ellen Jane's children may have had the same father, or different fathers.

But now you have Maud's and Frances's marriages -- so you can get the marriage certs like you were wanting, and see what they said about it all!

"and we think he married in 1901 and died shortly after"

Why? There is no Frederick Bellamy marriage in Devon in 1901.


SIMON!!! The question you are not answering is:

WHY do you think this Frederick (Samuel) Bellamy is the father of Ellen Jane Bellamy's children???

Looks like the same household in 1861 and 1871, with the mother using a different name in the two years.



1861:

Name: Mary Bellamy
Age: 44
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1817
Relation: Head
Gender: Female
>> Where born: Marystoff, Devon, England

Civil Parish: Exeter Holy Trinity
County/Island: Devon
Country: England

Registration district: Exeter
Sub registration district: St Sidwell
ED, institution, or vessel: 17
Household schedule number: 63

Anna Bellamy 9
Charles Bellamy 8
Emma Bellamy 16
Frederic Bellamy 6
Mary Bellamy 44
Elizabeth Daw 23
Walter Hawkins 9
William Hawkins 13
Amelia Holman 36


1871:

Name: Joanna Bellamy
Age: 52
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1819
Relation: Head
Gender: Female
>> Where born: Maristowe, Devon, England
Civil Parish: Holy Trinity
Ecclesiastical parish: Trinity
County/Island: Devon
Country: England

Registration district: Exeter
Sub registration district: St Sidwell
ED, institution, or vessel: 16
Household schedule number: 165

Frederick Bellamy 16
Joanna Bellamy 52