Find Ancestors

I'm trying desperately to find my grandfather and his family on the 1901 census. However, it seems that they were very much against this sort of thing.
My grandfather's birth it seems, was never registered but he was baptised - this proves his D.O.B and gives identies of both parents.
I've since tried looking on the 1901 census but to no avail.

He (Thomas Edward Cook) was baptised on 06/04/1898 at St James the Less, Ashted, Aston Manor (Now Birmingham) having been born on 16/03/1898. His parents were Thomas and Esther Cook. He was obviously born in the city and died there in 1952. I have his marriage details and death certificate. He wasn't an only child - a sister Leah married two weeks after him and actually signed as witness at his wedding. Both occurred in 1919 and both were aged 21. I think Leah's age could well be wrong. If she was 21 too, then the chances are she is his twin and would have been baptised with him. That didn't happen so I presume they were not twins.
So is it possible for a family to avoid being on the 1901 census?

This looks like the birth reg for Leah

Births Sep 1901 (>99%)

Cook Leah Mary Birmingham 6d 89

Christine

there is also this birth registration for leah

Leah Cooke
Aston 6d 395
September 1899

julie

It's possible not to find them on the 1901 - I have never managed to find my gr grandma or her children.

Regarding the ages of the children - it's possible that if both of them had their birthdays in between the two marriages they could easily have been 2 years apart in age. Bit weird but possible. Or even one year apart. My OH's mother is One year and two weeks younger than her brother - so it happened!

Jill

If you were under 21, then you needed your parents permission to get married. Even if you did have it, it was often viewed as less of a hassle to say you were 21 or older.

Is it possible that he was not born in Aastin after all.

There is only Thomas Edward Cook showing up on www.freebmd.org. as born in the June quarter 1898

Births Jun 1898 (>99%)

Cook Thomas Edward Hull 9d 302


........... and there is one Thomas Cook registered as born in Birmingham in June 1898

Births Jun 1898 (>99%)

Cook Thomas Birmingham 6d 94



Buying his birth certificate would give you his mother's maiden name.



Note that it is quite common not to find a second christian name on a birth registration ...... the second name was often not given until baptism, and the registration (and thus the birth certificate) would not be changed.


sylvia

I did try the one for Hull - infact I found that one on the 1901 census - the mothers name is Mary. The gt grandmother I seek (Esther) does appear on electoral lists for 1925 with my granddad. She disappears after then. They had been mispelt in previous years as Cork rather than Cook.
As for Leah, her death is a puzzle. I found a death for her in Birmingham (1963) as Leah Murray (her married name) but when I acquired the certificate, it had her as a widow but the dead husband's name was wrong. I haven't found another but she was living in Birmingham at the time. She has got two granddaughters, living in Birmingham somewhere but I don't know where. They are Kathleen Ann Woolley (b. 1952) and Sandra Ann Woolley (b. 1958). As far as I know, both are unmarried.

so what about trying the birth certificate for the Thomas Cook born Birmingham?? Right time period, right place ............... they could just not have registered him with the second name Edward.

You could specify mother's name as Esther .... this means they would only charge you £3 instead of £7 if that mother is not Esther.

But you do have to be careful ..... the name you specify has to be exactly the same as on the certificate ................. even the slightest difference in spelling can mean that you don't get the certificate.

For example, Esther could be misheard as Hester, or vice versa


Also, re Leah's death certificate.

In my humble opinion, the information on a death certificate is the least trustworthy of any certificate .

Why?

Because the information given on there is only what is known to the informant.

The only thing that you can trust to be accurate is the date of death, the place of death, the cause of death, and the name of the doctor attending and of the informant. All else is hearsay ........ what the dead person told the family or other people.

The name may be wrong, the age/date of birth may be wrong, etc etc


Thus the wrong name for a spouse ......... falls into the same category of the correct name may not have been known to the informant. Or it might have been the name by which the husband was known but not his "real" name.



sylvia

I have a family missing on the 1901 census. I have the childs birth cert and she was born 20/2/1901 and registered 11/4/1901 at the same address she was born .

However when checking for the street she was born in I found the census page from numbers 18-40 was missing.She was born number 18 so they dont appear on the census

I have a relative who on her birth certificate is Esther, on her death certificate is Hester.

Nicki

The Leah death certificate showed a wrong informant - a daughter by the name of Walker. Leah had 2 daughters - Rose who married Arthur Woolley and Esther - who was killed in an airraid in 1942.
As for my granddad, I did apply for a certicate using the D.O.B. I had and they have no records of anyone with that date. I know my granddad never really used his middle name - it only appears on the birth certificate for his first child. On his marriage, death and all other birth certificates, he is plain Thomas Cook.
As for acquirring certificates, you pay up front and if the search draws a blank, you get a full refund.

David

I think you only get a partial refund from the GRO if they cannot supply a cert that fulfills your checking criteria.

Daughter Esther's death. wonder why mothers name was not included?
MURRAY, ESTHER
Initials: E
Nationality: United Kingdom
Rank: Civilian
Regiment/Service: Civilian War Dead
Age: 16
Date of Death: 28/07/1942
Additional information: of 217 Brearley Street. Daughter of Edwin Murray. Died at Vyse Street.
Casualty Type: Civilian War Dead
Reporting Authority: BIRMINGHAM, COUNTY BOROUGH

birth index any good?
Name: Thomas Cook
Year of Registration: 1898
Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
District: Birmingham (1837-1924)
County: Warwickshire
Volume: 6d
Page: 94
What was his fathers occupation on the marriage cert?

are you 100% certain you have the right family ,i wonder about this death indexName: Thomas Cook
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1898
Year of Registration: 1898
Quarter of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec
Age at Death: 0
District: Birmingham (1837-1924)
County: Warwickshire
Volume: 6d
Page: 29
OR this one??


Name: Thomas Edward Cook
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1898
Year of Registration: 1900
Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
Age at Death: 2
District: Birmingham (1837-1924)
County: Warwickshire
Volume: 6d
Page: 15

If the one above is Esther and Thomas' child then you will need to look again for your Thomas .Is the dob you have, been given to you from family members or the date you have got from the baptism?There is also a marriage for an Esther Cook in 1900 so i wonder if her Thomas died and she is married again that is why she is not on the census in 1901 as Cook

n

Thats her - I know, no next of kin mentioned on her death certificate. Her name is on a memorial for civilian victims in the Bull Ring.
The refunds come at the register office - I have acquirred most from there. The only ones I've acquirred through post are from Dudley (William Murray's death - Esthers older brother) and my gran and gt aunts births (Worcester)

My gt grandad Thomas Cook is listed as a Plasterers Labourer. My grandad is listed as a cycle worker. However, my granddad is listed as a plasterers labourer on the birth certificate of Ellen Rose (first born).
My grandparents were married at St Georges, Newtown, Birmingham on 4th August 1919. Leah was married at the same church on 19th August 1919 to Edwin Murray. My grandparents lived in the north of the city until June 1939 when they moved to the south. My grandad died 13th August 1952 aged 54 when my dad was just 10 (he was the youngest of 11). My gran died 1st August 1972, just 5 1/2 years before I was born.

so David is the dob for Thomas from that baptism that you guessed could be him or a family member who knew the date?

have just found this birth index could it be a child before Ellen?(edit no i see you say she is 1st born,so he is not your family)
Name: James W Cook
Year of Registration: 1920
Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
Mother's Maiden Name: Hunt
District: Birmingham (1837-1924)
County: Warwickshire
Volume: 6d
Page: 594