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I am hoping to find the relatives of Frederick Webber Williams born 1878.He marries a Sarah Jane Gray June 10th 1905.His Father again was Frederick Williams but he was down as deceased.The residence at the time of marriage was 14 Pindar Street,Liverpool.Although his middle name was Webber,I am not sure that this was a birth name.It may well be that his Father died young and he was adopted by a Webber family.Pure guess though as this has happened before in my family.They tended at that time to add the families name that they were living with,to their own.Any info is absolutely appreciated and thanks if anyone finds anything.I imagine that the 1911 census will tell all,as it will give answers to a lot of questions..Colin

Colin,

Do you have any occupations?

Rose

Hi colin, any professions of anyone on the marrige cert please?
Rebecca.

Hi Colin,

What occupation did he give for himself and his father???

Oops You got there before me

Hi to you all,and thanks for responding.Both occupations were given as Labourer.I have found a Frederick in Liverpool in 1901.He was down as a sick labourer.Not sure if this was him, but it would make sense as I said previously,he was deceased by 1905....Colin

Hi Colin

Nothing is standing out clear on the 1901. The marriage took place in the west derby district. What parish was it and who witnessed it. More often than not they were relations. Have you any idea what district the marriage address is in.

Juelz

Hi.The marriage was witnessed by a James Meredith and a Christina Betteley.Havent a clue who these are.The Church that they were married in was by the looks of it anyway,ST John Chrysostom established church,in Everton.....

Hi Colin.

Cannot find him yet but here is somthing that is to much of a coincidence to ignore.

Garraboldi terr. Everton

Sarah Gray
Age: 28
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1873
Relation: Head
Gender: Female
Where born: Boldon, Lancashire, England


Joseph F Gray 3
Annie H Webber 10 months
Louisa M Webber 10 months

Sarah is a widow.
Living next door is a Christina Besseley. Note the ss instead of tt

This looks like they could be Freds ill. children with sarah.
I will keep digging

Juelz

just found the births.

Births Sep 1900 (>99%)
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De Couroy Marion W. Derby 8b 499
Gratton William Charles W. Derby 8b 499
McCarthy Eliza W. Derby 8b 499
Moss Eliza Amy W. Derby 8b 499
Murphy John W. Derby 8b 499
Robinson Elsie Rosina W.Derby 8b 499
TImothy Norah W. Derby 8b 499
Webber Annie Huddleston W. Derby 8b 499
Webber Louisa Marion W. Derby 8b 499
Willis Thomas James W.Derby 8b 499

could this be the first marriage.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Clare Charlotte Elizabeth W.Derby 8b 503
Gray Timothy W. Derby 8b 503
Manly Sarah Jane W.Derby 8b 503
Robertson John W. Derby 8b 503
Robertson John Allen W. Derby 8b 503

Do you have a birth certificate for any of frederick and sarahs children. This would confirm her maiden name.

An Eleanor Williams is listed on the same page for the marriage. Could she be a sibling? The marriage was at St. Chrysostom according to LancsBMD and the references are sequential 2095WD/6/334 and 2095WD/6/335.

Rose

Hi and Wow.That all looks amazing.What I do not understand is the Webber and Gray bit.Why are the childrens named after this rather than Williams.Is this a 1901 census.As she is the head then he must be either in hospital at this point or dead.As for the 1st marriage,the answer is no.Her maiden name was Ireland.

Who could be dead??? they did not marry until 1905.

Sorry.Obviously he is dead.You have mentioned that she is a widow.What date is this.....

Ahhh sorry.This is from the 1901 census then.Thicko hey.Why has she 2 children called Webber........

Marriages Sep 1894 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Gray Richard W. Derby 8b 992
HURLEY Samuel W. Derby 8b 992
Ireland Sarah Jane W. Derby 8b 992
Sanderson Margaret W. Derby 8b 992

Obviously twins.Do you think that he has added there name to his then,but where did the two children appear fro.She married a Richard Gray and thats obviously were the other child came from but either she was with someone else who they had two children out of wedlock.But why Webber and not Wiliams...

Hang on a mo.

Was looking for Webber/Williams marriages and found this:

Marriages Mar 1883
WEBBER Henry W. Derby 8b 661
WILLIAMS Marion W. Derby 8b 661

Then this:

Marriages Dec 1886
BETTELEY Henry W. Derby 8b 650
WEBBER Marion W Derby 8b 650

Rose

1891 England Census
about Frederick Webber
Name: Frederick Webber
Age: 11
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1880
Relation: Stepson
Mother's Name: Marion
Gender: Male
Where born: Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Civil Parish: Poulton With Seacombe
Ecclesiastical parish: St Paul
County/Island: Cheshire
Country: England
Street address:
Registration district: Birkenhead
Sub registration district: Wallasey
ED, institution, or vessel: 17
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Ada Betteley 8
Emily Betteley 6
Fanny Betteley 3
Henry Betteley 44
John Betteley 1
Marion Betteley 32
Stephen Betteley 13 Step Son
Frederick Webber 11

Rose

Hi Juelz.Your too quick for me girl.Does it state a ny info for Sarah Jane Ireland on the marriage records.....