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1871 England Census
Name: Marian Williams
Age: 13
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1858
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Frederick
Mother's Name: Eliza
Gender: Female
Where born: Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Civil Parish: Ely Rents and Hatton Garden and Saffron Hill
Ecclesiastical parish: St Peter
County/Island: London
Country: England
Registration district: Holborn
Sub registration district: Saffron Hill
ED, institution, or vessel: 2
Household schedule number: 76
Household Members: Name Age
Cornelius Williams 5
Eliza Williams 39
Ernest A Williams 1
Frederick Williams 41
George H Williams 15
Hiram L Williams 11
Lizzie H Williams 7
Marian Williams 13
Theodoria Williams 9

Rose

Again from IGI:

MARION WILLIAMS

Birth: 27 JUL 1857

Christening: 18 OCT 1857 St Johns Old Haymarket, Liverpool, Lancashire, England

Parents:
Father: FREDERICK WILLIAMS
Mother: ELIZA

Colin,

Marion is the mother of Frederick, but she wasn't married when she had him. She had 2 marriages:- 1 to a Webber and 1 to a Bettesley.

Here's the IGI entry:

Marion Williams
Father: Frederick Williams

Marriages:
Spouse: Henry Webber Family
Marriage: 01 JAN 1883 , Lancashire, England
Source Information:
Batch No.: Dates: Source Call No.: Type: Printout Call No.: Type:

I005404

Rose

Just lookin at the ages of Marion and Frederick.Is it poss that Marion is the Mother of Frederick as he is down as step son.She was born approx 1859 were he was born 1878,79.She then married a Webber which is were his middle name came from then she married a 3rd time to Betteley.

Hi Juelz.What can I say.So appreciated in what yer both found.Amazin.Yer av worked bloody hard on this one.Dont know how yer do it.Thanks so much...Colin

It looks as if Frederick was born Ill. He was given the name of Webber from the first marriage. As he grew up he must have decided to return to his birth name.
I have had one like this in my line. From a young child he was known by the surname of Barker. He was born ill under Tunnicliff and married under that name. He continued to use the name barker and his children were reg with the name. Even though he was ill. his mother Tunnicliffe married the father Barker. I think the vicar was being to precise.
Have to get hubbuys tea on now so will get back to you tomorrow.

Juelz

Is there any info on Marrions Father and Mother.Can you find any of them together in the 1881 census.Frederick and Wife with kids including Marion and Frederick....

Hi Juelz.So both marriages were hers then.1st to a Webber then to the Betteley.In 83 and 86.

Marions marriage to henry Webber has her father as Frederick Williams. (family search).
Must be where he gets his name from.

Only according to his marriage cert. You can't rely on that.

1901:

1901 England Census
about Marion Besseley
Name: Marion Besseley
Age: 44
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1857
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: Henry
Gender: Female
Where born: Liverpool, Lancashire, England

Civil Parish: Everton
Ecclesiastical parish: St Chrysostom
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street address:
Registration district: West Derby
Sub registration district: South Everton
ED, institution, or vessel: 30
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 52
Household Members: Name Age
Christina Besseley 13
Clara Besseley 4
Henry Besseley 54
John Besseley 11
Lillian Besseley 7
Margaret Besseley 9
Marion Besseley 44

Rose

I was busy looking for pinder street. Found one side of it. No williams or webber there. Give me a min to catch up

I know that the year Frederick and Sarah were married,1905.They had a child.Albert Frederick Williams...

Not sure were to go with all this as his Father was Frederick Williams.....

Or would yer go with the one below,Henry Betteley and Marion Webber.Gettin confusin now...

Just looking at your post further up.You have a Marion Williams with a henry Webber.This I presume is who is is with as a step son.Do you think that by this time his Father was dead and this is were he took the name Webber from....

Wow Rose.Another interesting find.They are coming thick and fast.This Webber is obviously living with the Betteleys.Why would he not be known as Williams though...

Hi Juelz.Your too quick for me girl.Does it state a ny info for Sarah Jane Ireland on the marriage records.....

1891 England Census
about Frederick Webber
Name: Frederick Webber
Age: 11
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1880
Relation: Stepson
Mother's Name: Marion
Gender: Male
Where born: Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Civil Parish: Poulton With Seacombe
Ecclesiastical parish: St Paul
County/Island: Cheshire
Country: England
Street address:
Registration district: Birkenhead
Sub registration district: Wallasey
ED, institution, or vessel: 17
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Ada Betteley 8
Emily Betteley 6
Fanny Betteley 3
Henry Betteley 44
John Betteley 1
Marion Betteley 32
Stephen Betteley 13 Step Son
Frederick Webber 11

Rose

Hang on a mo.

Was looking for Webber/Williams marriages and found this:

Marriages Mar 1883
WEBBER Henry W. Derby 8b 661
WILLIAMS Marion W. Derby 8b 661

Then this:

Marriages Dec 1886
BETTELEY Henry W. Derby 8b 650
WEBBER Marion W Derby 8b 650

Rose

Obviously twins.Do you think that he has added there name to his then,but where did the two children appear fro.She married a Richard Gray and thats obviously were the other child came from but either she was with someone else who they had two children out of wedlock.But why Webber and not Wiliams...