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Joan, i don't think this is my family as on the 1861 census it shows my gr.grandfather owen aged 3 , anyway i don't think i could be any more confused. lol. regards jean

thanks very much joan , i think i amgoing to need it, still it is very interesting stuff. you have been very helpful regards jean

Jean,

Not to confuse you more but is it possible you may have the wrong family? I found this one!

1861 Scotland Census
about Mary Ann Farnan
Name: Mary Ann Farnan
Age: 9
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1852
Relationship: Daughter
Father's Name: John
Mother's Name: Sarah
Gender: Female
Where born: Old Monkland, Lanarkshire
Registration Number: 625/2
Registration district: Holytown
Civil Parish: Bothwell
County: Lanarkshire
Address: Edinr & Glasgow Road
ED: 2
Household schedule number: 122
Line: 3
Roll: CSSCT1861_92
Household Members: Name Age
Helen Farnan 5
John Farnan 32
Margaret Farnan 1
Mary Ann Farnan 9
Patrick Farnan 4
Sarah Farnan 23

hi again, i'm guessing mary gavinne was indeed a boarder and not family as she was born in dundee.

Jean,

Many times "boarder" and/or "visitor" can be a family member. It wasn't always listed the exact relationship. My great grandfather's younger brother was residing with his older sister in Northumberland and her family. It listed him as a boarder not brother-in-law or wife's brother. I knew it was her brother because he was one of the siblings I was looking for.

Good luck!

joan, thank you for all your hard work i have been going round in circles with this one, so many discrepencies,trouble is the only info i have is on the census's,can't even find births for the girls.this is the family on both censu's. jean

Jean,

According to the 1871 census Ann's place of birth is Ireland as well as Helen

1901 Scotland Census
about Mary Gavine
Name: Mary Gavine
Age: 55
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1846
Relationship: Head
Gender: Female
Where born: Dundee, Forfarshire
Registration Number: 282/4
Registration district: St Andrew
Civil Parish: Dundee
County: Angus
Address: 151 Victoria Rd
Occupation: Jute & Flax Cloth Picker
ED: 17
Household schedule number: 128
Line: 6
Roll: CSSCT1901_100
Household Members: Name Age
Elizabeth W Gavine 26
James W Gavine 29
Mary Gavine 55
William B Gavine 24

Sorry joan i'm confusing you now, maybe mary was not a daughter but a boarder,i will have to go back to scotlands people and take another look with my magnifying glass. but on the census you showed me it says that ann was born in ireland. jean

Is this the family in 1861? Notice the place of birth?

1861 Scotland Census
about Helen Farnan
Name: Helen Farnan
Age: 14
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1847
Relationship: Daughter
Father's Name: Patrick
Mother's Name: Anne
Gender: Female
Where born: Bothwell, Lanark
Registration Number: 625/2
Registration district: Holytown
Civil Parish: Bothwell
County: Lanarkshire
Address: New Stevenson
ED: 8
Household schedule number: 164
Line: 17
Roll: CSSCT1861_92
Household Members: Name Age
Anne Farnan 35
Anne Farnan 11
Helen Farnan 14
John Farnan 10 Mo
Michael Farnan 10 Mo
Owen Farnan 3
Patrick Farnan 35
Peter Farnan 7

Where's Mary? Was she married by this time?

Jean, I wouldn't worry so much about the place of birth, either the 1861 or 1871 census could be not accurate (depends upon who gave the informaton to the census taker at the time). Many times individuals did not understand the question or it was just easier to say the whole family was born in Ireland. Unfortunately, we cannot assume what took place so many years ago. I have found so many discrepancies on my ancestors in England, it isn't funny.

Jean,

I can't access the actual record but the title page states that she is a boarder but not record whether she was married or not.

Joan

Hi Joan, i have just noticed on the 1871 census it states she was born in ireland. and not lanarkshire, now i am more confused. jean

thank you very much keith, i will continue searching but i don't know where. regards jean

thanks for that joan, yes this them but i couldn't make out if she was married ,i thought on the census shows she was unmarried . jean

Unfortunately, no likely candidates on FMP passenger lists.

Joan, yes their parents were born in ireland but they were born in lanarkshire, the latest i have them is 1871 census living in dundee, thanks jean

For reference: Is this the family in 1871?

1871 Scotland Census
about Ann Farnan
Name: Ann Farnan
Age: 20
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1851
Relationship: Daughter
Mother's Name: Anne
Gender: Female
Where born: Ireland
Registration Number: 282/2
Registration district: St Mary
Civil Parish: Liff and Benvie
County: Angus
Address: 17 Blackness Rd
Occupation: Binder
ED: 22
Household schedule number: 71
Line: 13
Roll: CSSCT1871_50
Household Members: Name Age
Andw Farnan 13
Ann Farnan 20
Anne Farnan 45
Helen Farnan 23
John Farnan 11
Peter Farnan 15
Mary Gavine 25

It looks like Mary may have married "Gavine"

Were they Irish?

New York Passenger Lists, 1820-1957
about Ann Farnan
Name: Ann Farnan
Arrival Date: 23 Aug 1869
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1848
Age: 21
Gender: Female
Port of Departure: Glasgow, Scotland
Destination: United States of America
Place of Origin: Ireland
Ethnicity/Race­/Nationality: Irish
Ship Name: Iowa
Search Ship Database: Search the Iowa in the 'Passenger Ships and Images' database
Port of Arrival: New York
Line: 49
Microfilm Serial: M237
Microfilm Roll: M237_316
List Number: 978
Port Arrival State: New York
Port Arrival Country: United States

Oops, you said you found them in 1871?

keith, i have looked on scotlands people for their marraige's but found nothing , don't know where else to go with this one, couldn't find deaths for them either, regards jean