Find Ancestors

Hi Lisa

Sending you a pm.

Mary

Hi Mary: I'm not sure how to order the certificate. (I've only ordered one from the states, and that was 25 years ago.) I do know you should try to order it from a state site, rather than a private company. Perhaps Judy might read this thread again. I believe she mentioned knowing how to order it.

You mentioned that your grandmother came to America. Would you like to pm me her name, and I can have a look to see if I can find her immigration record, which may give more clues?

PS My mum also has a wonderful memory. I guess our mum's used up all the memory cells and didn't leave any for us. :)

PS You're quite welcome for the help. It has been fun. :)

Hi Lisa

Ah, I think that this one is the one I had found previously and mistakenly said was Philadelphia ......I was working from memory (which I shouldn't cos mine is so bad!)

Providence, Rhode Island Directory, 1890-1891
Thomas Hutchinson
303 Broadway, at J.
Shoemaker
Providence, Rhode Island


I have found a marriage in Nottingham 1919 for Ernest Hutchinson age 24 occ. miner - father Thomas occ Bootmaker which all matches what is known about him and I do think this could well be him. Obviously I need to work forward on this one to see if I can make contact with any descendants who might be able to verify the facts.

Yes, it was definitely 2 cards my mother saw. One for the Naturalisation and the other for the work in prisons teaching Boot and Shoe making to prisoners in those 3 states.

She remembers seeing on the naturalisation card: Paradise Plantation, Long Island - she remembers that vividly as she was about 12/13 years old and it all sounded rather exotic to her young mind. Unlike me my mother does have a very good memory :-))

She also remembers hearing Philadelphia being mentioned but I couldn't make any connection to it until I found the entry on the incoming passenger list and then found Ernest on the 1901 census born in Philadelphia (the one living with the Hallam family as adopted son).

I've also found the same birth details for Florence on the LDS site......it could well be her although on her death cert her 2nd name is May - having said that my name is Mary and sometimes when I sign my name is does look like May!! Is there anyway I can get a copy of that original birth cert.....or will it not have anymore details on it than those given on the LDS entry?

Lisa, many many thanks for all your help I really do appreciate all you are doing for me.

Mary

Probably not your Ernest, but
WWI Draft Reg Card, 1917-1918
City: Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
Ernest Hallam
Home address: 3057 C or E Street
Birth: March 7, 1897
Born: Nottingham, England
Father's Birthplace: Nottingham, England
Name of Employer: William Brown
Place of employment(?): Kensington Ave & Ontario
Blue eyes, brown hair
Next of Kin: Mary Elizabeth Hallam
Stamp of Local Board: Philadelphia, Penna
-----------------
Probably not him...there's a Ernest Hallam, born March 1897, immigrated 1898 or 1899, son of James and Louisa Hallam. They were living in Philadelphia.

Before I go...Have you tried looking for Ernest Hallam (could he have changed his name)?

http://search-recherche.collectionscanada.gc.ca/archives/search.jsp?Language=eng
Didn't see Ernest when looking for Home Children
There is a William H, age 16, year of arrival 1903

Didn't see either brother in the WWI attestation papers.

It's almost 1:00 a.m. and I have training tomorrow, so I better stop for tonight. Sorry I couldn't find anything helpful.

Do you know where William and Florence were born? Have you looked on the LDS site for the family?
(I didn't see them.)
http://www.familysearch.org/eng/search/frameset_search.asp
-----------------
There is a:
Florence Mary Hutchinson
birth: 19-June-1890, Johnston, Providence, Rhode Island
Parents: Thos. Hutchinson, Mary

http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi
You could look here for Hutchinson, buried Pennsylvania (there are 279 matches).

http://www.phila.gov/phils/Docs/Inventor/natz.htm
"The petition for naturalization, important as proof of your ancestor's successful bid to become a citizen of the United States, contains no genealogical information before 1906. It will state the date and court before which the applicant made his declaration, the applicant's desire to become a citizen, a voucher from an existing citizen as to the applicant's moral character, date of the petition, and the applicant's signature or mark."

I wonder if there is an LDS Centre near you...you might be able to order records regarding Philadelphia and be able to find the death of Thomas' wife? Or, a much easier way to get information, would be from the birth certificate you are trying to order! :)

Providence, Rhode Island Directory, 1890-1891
Thomas Hutchinson
303 Broadway, at J.
Shoemaker
Providence, Rhode Island

Probably not your Thomas, but letting you know:
1889-1891, Thomas P. Hutchinson, 310 Bank, Waterbury, Connecticut, Shoe Store

Hi Mary:
Sorry it took so long for me to get back here.

I am starting to look around (and can't find anything yet).

However, I wonder if your mum saw two cards; one for citizenship and the other for permission to teach boot making? Being Canadian, I certainly don't know a lot about American "things", but the comment about Thomas being allowed to teach in Texas, Nevada and Utah just seems odd! I wonder if he worked for the prison system? Back in "those days", travel was a bit difficult. I don't think it was too common to go from state to state, teaching. Texas, of course, is a huge state, and I would think travel in Nevada and Utah would be difficult. He may have travelled by train, but with the size of the states, the mountains, and the deserts, I wouldn't have wanted to travel! I believe he might have worked for the prison system or government or something else.

Be careful with assuming you found him in 1890. Boot/shoemaking was a common occupation in North America. [Note: after rereading that the family was in Philadelphia, it most likely was your Thomas.]

I cannot find Paradise Plantation in America. Even if the town was renamed, I would think it would still be found when doing a google search.

I'm off now to look for William and Ernest.

Hi Lisa

Sorry, I've only just seen your post :-((

Yes please, I would really welcome any help you are able to give, thank you :-)) I'll put everything I know:

Thomas Hutchinson born 1865, Nottingham. He went to the US sometime after the UK 1881census was taken. He took American citizenship or naturalisation at Paradise Plantation, (not sure where that is but assume it's NY?), my mother remembers seeing the card when she was a young girl so we know it to be true, but have not managed to find it in the records anywhere. It also gave permission for him to teach boot and shoemaking to prisoners in Texas, Nevada and Utah. I did find a Thomas Hutchinson, boot and shoe shop in a directory for Philadelphia 1890 and I do think this was him. No-one else from his family ever went abroad anywhere, just him.

I haven't been able to find out anything more about his time in the US - but the family story is that he married out there and had a family, his wife died and he returned home with 3 children, one a baby in arms.

He is in England on the 1901 census in Nottinham with his 2nd wife and William aged 13, plus his daughter from 2nd marriage (my grandmother). Florence died in 1900 from meningitis....I have her death cert. Ernest is not with them on 1901 census but I believe I have found him living with a Francis Hallam, aged 6, noted as *Adopted son* born Philadelphia. Don't know why as yet :-((

I have now found him on the UK incoming passenger list for 1896 - details are:

Philadelphia to Liverpool - 15th Feb 1896
Thomas Hutchinson, age 32, shoemaker
William Hutchinson, age 8
Florence Hutchinson, age 6
Ernest Hutchinson, age 8 months.

The above matches what my grandmother has always said and I do have a photo of William and Florence c1897/8. Strangely, my grandmother knew the name Hallam, and thought it was possibly the name of their mother.....now though I realise that what she heard as a child was her parents talking about the family Ernest was living with, which is another reason why I am so sure that Ernest living with Francis Hallam is her half brother.

I do so wish the 1911 census was available now! I don't know if William or Ernest married, died, returned to US?? - in fact I know nothing more about them really. My grandmother and family moved to the south of England about 1913 when she was only 12 years old so I don't suppose she even knew William that well, he being 13 years older than her :-((

Sorry, that's all a bit long winded.

Many thanks

Mary

Mary, if I may help look, please let me know?

Was Ernest's mother American? You have evidence of his father's death in England? Did any other rellies come/stay in America? Asking the obvious, but your searches have included the spelling "Earnest"? (I have several rellies with the name Ernest from that time period and a few of them are on census returns with the Earnest spellings.)

Judy: Hi! Good to see you back (?). I saw a couple of your responses a few hours ago and wondered if it was you. I thought it was, by your replies. (I always learn so much reading your replies.) There are several of us now who reply on American/Canadian posts and it's fun "bumping into each other" on the various posts. :) I hope you'll join our little group? :)

Hi Lisa

Thank you very much for looking for me. As far as I know at this time, Ernest stayed in the UK. Although my grandmother clearly remembers going on a ship to America when she was a young child....was it to take Ernest back to the US?? I just really don't know!

I am trawling through the outgoing passenger lists - again! - trying to find any evidence of her trip but haven't found anything concrete yet :-(

Many thanks
Mary

Hi Judy

Thank you very very much for the offer, very appreciated. I have sent them an email about supplying a cert to the UK and am waiting on a reply. So I may take you up on your kind offer if that's okay, will let you know what they say. :-))

Many thanks
Mary

Lisa...nice to see a friendly "face" still on the boards! Saw your name a few times while trolling through the boards.....LOL

Judy

Mary...I am a few miles from Philadelphia. I can make a trip over there or if using my home address cuts down in any red tape helps I would be more than happy to help and forward documents to you....let me know if you have any problems.

Judy

I don't see Ernest in Canada in 1911 (with the exact spelling of Hutchinson).
http://automatedgenealogy.com/

I don't see WWI attestation papers for him in Canada:
http://search-recherche.collectionscanada.gc.ca/archives/search.jsp?Language=eng

Thanks again for all your help Judy.

I've had a look at the site and downloaded the order form to get a birth cert. As far as I can make out it has to be sent by post and I'm hoping that there is no problem about them sending it to me here in the UK. :-)

Mary

Mary:

If he wasn't in the US as an adult the above social security information wouldn't be him. His birth, though, would be documented in Philadelphia if that is where he was born and the information can be obtained through the website above.

Judy