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The baptismal entry immed before Martha's is Joseph's. The entry says Joseph was b 21/12/1860 (I suppose so we'ld know they weren't twins); their abode was Stephenson St, So Shields and Henry was a tinsmith. This is from image 241 of 494. To see it, go to:
http://www.familysearch.org/eng/default.asp
and click on search records - record search pilot in the blue bar at top, scroll down, then recall that Newcastle's in Europe, and go to the Durham bishop's transcripts.

Thank you so much Dee, only just seen all this stuff. Is a great help. Have just enjoyed adding it all to my tree. Now gonna go on the hunt for a birth for John (jnr) so i can get the cert to find out who his mother was.
Thank you so much for all of your help, have a look at my tree if you want to see it all pieced together!
Thanks again,
Jenny
xxxx

And this could be Elizabeths death;

Deaths Dec 1879 (99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Taylor Elizabeth 41 S. Shields 10a 384

Looking at this from a different slant;

John Taylors half sisters marriage;

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page
Marriages Dec 1882
----
Buteland Annie South Shields 10a 1046
Marshall James Martin S. Shields 10a 1046
Nichol Martha Ann S.Shields 10a 1046 <<<<<<<<<<
PATTERSON John S. Shields 10a 1046 <<<<<<<<<

The only birth that ties in;


Births Dec 1862
--
NICHOL Martha Ann Tynemouth 10b 149


Her christening;

MARTHA ANN NICHOL
Female
Event(s):
Birth:
Christening: 16 DEC 1862 All Saints, Newcastle Upon Tyne, Northumberland, England

Parents:
Father: HENRY NICHOL
Mother: ELIZABETH

her parents marriage;

HENRY SANDERSON NICHOL
Male
Marriages:
Spouse: ELIZABETH KELLY
Marriage: 05 FEB 1860 Saint Nicholas, Newcastle Upon Tyne, Northumberland, England


1861 England Census
about Henry S Nichol
Name: Henry S Nichol
Age: 26
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1835
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Elizabeth
Gender: Male
Where born: Carlisle, Cumberland, England

Civil Parish: All Saints
County/Island: Northumberland
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage: View Image

Registration district: Newcastle Upon Tyne
Sub registration district: All Saints
ED, institution, or vessel: 2b
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 160
Household Members: Name Age
Henry S Nichol 26
Elizabeth Nichol 22
Joseph Nichol 3 Mo


I think Joseph died quite young, and Henry in 1863. So Elizabeth and Martha are both from Newcastle, now is this where she met John Snr??? If I remember rightly you thought the family came from that area??

Dee xx

Thank you sooooo much Dee! I got a few of these bits after I posted the plea for help earliter today but i didnt make the connections with addresses like you did! I would love to say thats solved (and for the Johnson side it is) but I particularly want the Taylor side as thats the blood line for my family. Just wanted to know a bit more about John Taylor Snr and who he married, etc so I could get further back and get his father maybe! But this will take time I know. This is all great for now, will start adding it to the tree. Thank you so much for all of your help, very much appreciated!
Jenny
xxxxx

AND, in 1891 Elizabeth Johnson (Sarah's mother) is living next door to John and Sarah Taylor at 29 Albion Street!!!!!

1891 England Census
about Elizabeth Johnson
Name: Elizabeth Johnson
Age: 54
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1837
Relation: Head
Gender: Female
Where born: South Shields, Durham, England

Civil Parish: South Shields
Ecclesiastical parish: St Stephens
Town: South Shields
County/Island: Durham
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View Image

Registration district: South Shields
Sub registration district: South Shields
ED, institution, or vessel: 3
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Elizabeth Johnson 54
Thomas Johnson 20
George Johnson 16
William Johnson 14


Problem solved????

Dee xxx

Hi Jenny,

Margaret Manson found the 1891 census for John Taylor and they were living at 28 Albion Street, well look who's living at 14 Albion Street;

1891 England Census
about Hugh Taylor
Name: Hugh Taylor
Age: 15
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1876
Relation: Brother-in-law
Gender: Male
Where born: South Shields, Durham, England

Civil Parish: Westoe
Ecclesiastical parish: St Stephens
County/Island: Durham
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View Image

Registration district: South Shields
Sub registration district: Westoe
ED, institution, or vessel: 11
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
John Patterson 28
Martha A Patterson 28 (Martha Nichol from 1881 census)
Elizabeth Patterson 9
Hugh Patterson 6
Martha A Patterson 4
Amy Patterson 2
Mary A Patterson 3/12
Hugh Taylor 15 <<<<< Johns little brother

Too much of a coincidence for the 1881 census for John Taylor snr for it not to be the correct family, I just can't find them on the 1871 census.

Dee xx

Same family, and check out the address and then look at the address on the 1881 census for John Taylor which I put up on page 1;

1881 England Census
about Sarah Johnson
Name: Sarah Johnson
Age: 13
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1868
Relation: Daughter
Mother's Name: Elisabeth
Gender: Female
Where born: South Shields, Durham, England

Civil Parish: South Shields
County/Island: Durham
Country: England

Street address: 49 Wapping St
Education:

Employment status: View Image
Occupation: Scholar

Registration district: South Shields
Sub registration district: South Shields
ED, institution, or vessel: 4
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Elisabeth Johnson 44 (widow!)
Joseph Johnson 18
Mary A. Johnson 15
Sarah Johnson 13
Thomas Johnson 11
Dorothy Johnson 8
George Johnson 6
William Johnson 4
George W. Henderson (Grandson)


Dee xx

Hi Jenny,

This 1 looks good;

1871 England Census
about Sarah Elizabeth Johnson
Name: Sarah Elizabeth Johnson
Age: 3
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1868
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Thomas
Mother's Name: Elizabeth
Gender: Female
Where born: South Shields, Durham, England
Civil Parish: South Shields
Ecclesiastical parish: St Stephen
Town: South Shields
County/Island: Durham
Country: England
Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability: View Image
Registration district: South Shields
Sub registration district: South Shields
ED, institution, or vessel: 4
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 29
Household Members: Name Age
Thomas Johnson 35 occupation Ship wright
Elizabeth Johnson 34
Eleanor Johnson 12
John Thomas Johnson 10
Joseph Johnson 7
Mary Ann Johnson 5
Sarah Elizabeth Johnson 3
Thomas Johnson 7 months

Maybe young Eleanor was named after her sister??


Dee xx

Right, I got the marriage cert for John and Sarah through today and even with the extra info cant find anything! Cert shows: Marriage on March 18th 1890, South Westoe, Durham. John is 20 and Sarah 21. Johns profession is recorded as Fireman. Both living at Derby Terrace. John's father is John Taylor (deceased) and a Shoemaker. Sarah's father is Thomas Johnson (deceased) and a Shipwright. The only thing I can find which ties in is the 1881 status which Dee found showing John Snr from Ireland and his profession as shoemaker. But from there I'm totally stuck!!! any ideas would be much appreciated as I'm about to find the nearest wall to bang my head against!! Thank you,
Jenny
xx

Yeah i know what u mean! thanks for all that, will see what the marriage certs show when i get them! Thanks again,
Jenny
xx

Martha must be Elizabeths daughter, not sure when Elizabeth died though.

I can't find the family in 1871 though, but 1 thing to remember is that men aren't very good with birth dates (still aren't even to today, well mine isn't !!! LOL!!), so this may be the reason why I'm struggling to find them.

Dee xx

Ah right ok that makes sense. Thanks! So where does the stepdaughter come into it? ?I'm being slow.....whose child is she? It does tie in tho as the name is carried on as John jnr has a child called Martha. Do you ever look at these things and it takes you ages for the penny to drop?!Sorry for being difficult!!think my brain is frazzled!haha!

Hi Jenny,

John Taylor Snr is a widow on the 1881 census.

This maybe his marriage;

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page
Marriages Dec 1868
Nichol Elizabeth Gateshead 10a 847
TAYLOR John Gateshead 10a 847


Dee x

Hi Dee, not sure where I got the ?Scottish bit from, think my nan mentioned something. The names of the children on this census report ring a bell, think i've got them noted down somewhere. If John has a step-daughter, does it say wheter he is married at this time?

Hi Jenny,

What makes you think there maybe a Scottish connection??

I came across this, however until you have a marriage cert, everything is guess work!!!

1881 England Census
about John Taylor
Name: John Taylor
Age: 12
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1869
Relation: Son
Father's Name: John
Gender: Male
Where born: South Shields, Durham, England

Civil Parish: South Shields
County/Island: Durham
Country: England

Street address: 69 Wapping St
Education:

Employment status: View Image
Occupation: Scholar

Registration district: South Shields
Sub registration district: South Shields
ED, institution, or vessel: 4
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
John Taylor 39 Born Inneskilling, Ireland, Occupation shoemaker
Martha Nichol 18 Step daughter
John Taylor 12
Margaret Taylor 10
Robert Taylor 7
Hugh Taylor 5
James Taylor 4


Dee x

Yeah I Know I tried without much luck. Will have to wait for marriage cert to come through. Thank you for all of your help!
Jenny x

I can't pinpoint either John or Sarah on the 1881 census to get fathers' names. Both Taylor and Johnson are such common names.

Ah so they were both out of wed lock then! Ive just ordered the marriage certificate. What do you think are the chances of being able to find out about John's father before I get the marriage cert or is that just pointless? Think this might be where I'm going wrong! Just guessing from census records!

I had a look at FreeBMD to see if those 2 older children were Taylors or Johnsons. There are too many Elizabeths to tell but the only Mary Ann that fits is a Johnson.