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Well, in 1861 he was a farmer *and fundholder*, i.e. annuitant = idle rich = no profession. ;)

I just can't doubt that's him in 1841 though. They're in Yorkshire and he is born out of county, Sarah and son John born in couhty. Sarah is older than him. John is under a year, matching the age and place of birth of John in 1851. And "Anne" in 1851 really does say "Naomi".

Maybe mum Fanny was off in 1841 marrying someone rich and then getting widowed by 1851 and reverting to her first married name to live on the inheritance ...

well, that's why I wondered if it was "another" name for Sarah, because the details matched


...... I had read your posts, naturally!!!


I did see that entry in 1841 .... but I wondered as he is shown on there as Boot Maker .....

then he becomes an Annuitant in 1851,

and a farmer in 1861


and No Profession in 1871



doesn't stick to jobs does he?



I couldn't find Fanny/Nanny or any other Kettlewell of the right age to be his parents on the 1841



sylvia

Sarah had a lot of names, but Anne wasn't one of them. ;)

(You *did* read my posts, right? Like the censuses I already put in the thread?)

Richard and Sarah married in 1838. Sarah died in 1875. Who knows? Maybe she was the one who left him when she found out about Martha, and she's shacked up with somebody else in 1871. I looked at a bunch of Sarahs, but couldn't identify one whose children looked like any of the Kettlewell children.


Richard and Sarah were together in 1841:

Name: Richard Kettlewell
Age: 20
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1821

Civil Parish: Bradford
County/Island: Yorkshire
Registration district: Thorne

Richard Kettlewell 20
Sarah Kettlewell 25
John Kettlewell 8 Mo

(Sarah's older. I wonder whether the money was hers ...)

Actually, Anne matches Sarah's details - date and place of birth - so I think it has to be her.

And in fact, if you squint at it, I think it really says Naomi.

well, Richard was quite the guy wasn't he????? Or did Sarah call herself Anne on this census??


1851 Census

Name: Richard Kelltworth
[Richard Kettlewell]
Age: 33
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1818
Relation: Son
Spouse's Name: Anne
Mother's Name: Fanny
Gender: Male
Where born: Lincolnshire, England

Civil Parish: Belton
County/Island: Lincolnshire
Country: England

Registration district: Thorne
Sub registration district: Epworth

Fanny Kelltworth 67 b.ca 1784, Lincolnshire, Head, Annuitant
Richard Kelltworth 33 Annuitant
Anne Kelltworth 36 b.ca 1815, Yorkshire
John Kelltworth 10
Josepha Kelltworth 5
Richard Kelltworth 3
William Kelltworth 1
Anne Bradwell 16

Address:- Garden House


sylvia

By 1891, Martha is allegedly widowed ...... but is again working as a Charwoman


1891 Census

Name: Martha R Kettlewell
Age: 49
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1842
Relation: Head
Gender: Female
Where born: Belton, Lincolnshire, England

Civil Parish: East Butterwick
Ecclesiastical parish: Messingham
Town: Messingham
County/Island: Lincolnshire
Country: England

Registration district: Glanford Brigg
Sub registration district: Winterton

Martha R Kettlewell 49 Widow, Charwoman and General Work
John Kettlewell 15 b.ca 1876, Armthorpe, Yowkshire, Farmers Day Boy
Joseph R Kettlewell 9 b.ca 1882, Scotton, Scholar


I did notice that the occupation for Martha was first written as Retired Farmers Widow, then that was crossed out, and Charwoman and General Work written above it



I suggest that this is further evidence that Richard did not marry her, and that after he died, she was left penniless.




sylvia

and just look at the birthplaces of the children on the 1881 Census

Name Age
Richard Kettlewell 58 No Profession
Martha Kettlewell 44
William Kettlewell 11 b.ca 1870, Armthorpe, Yorkshire
Wallter Kettlewell 9 b.ca 1872, Armthorpe
Fredrick Kettlewell 7 b.ca 1874, Armthorpe
John Kettlewell 5 b.ca 1876, Armthorpe
George H. Kettlewell 3 b.ca 1878, Scotton, Lincolnshire
Joseph R. Kettlewell 1 b.ca 1880, Scotton



sylvia

Martha certainly moved around!!


Information from the 1871 Census

Name Age
Martha Jackson 33 b. Belton, Lincolnshire, Charwoman
Matilda Jackson 10 b.ca 1861, Belton,
Sarah A Jackson 7 b.ca 1864, Arnthorpe, Yorkshire
Arthur Jackson 5 b.ca 1866, Belton
Richard Jackson 3 b.ca 1868, Doncaster, Yorkshire
William Jackson 1 b.ca 1870, Armthorpe




In 1861 she was House Servant, in 1871 she was Charwoman


you're probaby going to hate me for this .


......... but I doubt that they ever married!


He was a farmer and gentleman, and as such probably would not have married someone who had been his servant and then a charwoman.



sylvia

Per the 1861, Richard's wife Sarah was born in Keighley, Yorkshire. So this is likely the marriage:

Marriages Jun 1838
GREENWOOD Sarah Naomi Ruth Keighley 23 213
Kettlewell Richard Keighley 23 213

Where Sarah has got to in 1871 (Richard reports married, but is staying at an inn), I don't know.


This would be son Joseph Kettlewell, aged 15 in the 1861:

JOSEPH ROBERT KETTLEWELL
Christening: 14 DEC 1845 Bradford, Yorkshire, England
Father: RICHARD KETTLEWELL
Mother: SARAH NAOMI RUTH
Batch No.: C107652


Deaths Mar 1875
KETTLEWELL Sarah Naomi R 59 Bramley 9b 303

1871

Name: Martha Jackson
Age: 33
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1838
Relation: Head
Where born: Belton, Lincolnshire, England
Civil Parish: Armthorpe
Town: Armthorpe
County/Island: Yorkshire
- unmarried, charwoman

Name: William Jackson ------ William Kettlewell in 1881
Age: 1
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1870
Relation: Son
Mother's Name: Martha
Where born: Armthorpe, Yorkshire, England

Martha Jackson 33
Matilda Jackson 10
Sarah A Jackson 7
Arthur Jackson 5
Richard Jackson 3
William Jackson 1

Richard and Martha in 1881 (see, you can find them on the censuses, but we still have to, to see what's going on):

Name: Richard Kettlewell
Age: 58
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1823
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Martha
Where born: Kidby, Lincoln, England

Civil Parish: Scotton
County/Island: Lincolnshire

Street address: Crappal Lane
Condition as to marriage: Married
Occupation: No Profession

Richard Kettlewell 58
Martha Kettlewell 44
William Kettlewell 11
Wallter Kettlewell 9
Fredrick Kettlewell 7
John Kettlewell 5
George H. Kettlewell 3
Joseph R. Kettlewell 1

Richard in 1871:

Name: Richd Kettlewell
Age: 50
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1821
Relation: Lodger
Gender: Male
Where born: Kidby, Lincolnshire, England
- married, annuitant

Civil Parish: Belton
County/Island: Yorkshire
Registration district: Thorne

Joseph Greenhouse 59
Sarah Greenhouse 50
Catherine Lambert 11
Richd Kettlewell 50


I'm confused as to why you think they married. Are there children, and are the two names on the birth certificates?

Well, if 1861-1881 is your range for the marriage, you're not finding them on at least the 1871 census, it seems!

1861:

Name: Richard Kettlewell
Age: 44
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1817
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Sarah
Gender: Male
Where born: Ridby, Lincolnshire, England
- Farmer of 5 Acres and Fundholder

Civil Parish: Belton
County/Island: Lincolnshire

Richard Kettlewell 44
Sarah Kettlewell 47
Joseph Kettlewell 15
Richd Kettlewell 13
William Kettlewell 11
Mary Kettlewell 9
Hannah Kettlewell 7
Martha Jackson 23
Matilda Jackson 7 Mo

Name: Martha Jackson
Age: 23
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1838
Relation: Servant
Gender: Female
Where born: Belton, Lincolnshire, England


I think we can see what happened here. ;)

cant find one ?

PLEASE HELP Trying to find marriage between richard kettlewell and martha jackson.
Richard born in kidby, lincolnshire between 1817 and 1823. Father Robert and Nanny.
Martha Jackson born in belton, lincolnshire c1837.
I can easily find them on the census pages but can't find any record of the marriage which I believe must have taken place between 1861 - 1881.
Any info would be much appreciated.