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In 1851, William Long and his wife Ann are in Westminster St Margaret still, and they and their elder children are all orris weavers. William is born in Westminster.
Richard is a "Horace Weaver", heh, and is in Westminster St John the Evangelist.
They have to be related.
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It certainly was a family trade.
In 1881, William's son Henry and Richard's son Henry are both orris weavers, for instance.
Also William's son Thomas.
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Thanks Janey will have to study this a bit - I think I am losing the "plot" now.
Will try googling the Weavers Guild for contact details
Once again thank you every
Regards Paula
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Thanks Christine. Have just emailed the Weavers Guild - if it goes through ok - the email looked a bit iffy.
Will update if/when they reply.
Will have to bookmark this thread and study it as the dates appear to be the main thing here
Regards Paula
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worth looking at
1841
Address: Carrington Street, St George Hanover Square, Westminster
CHARD, Thomas M 45 1796 Middlesex VIEW
CHARD, Eliza F 42 1799 Middlesex VIEW
CHARD, Eliza F 20 1821 Middlesex VIEW
CHARD, Ann F 19 1822 Middlesex VIEW
CHARD, Ellen F 50 1791 VIEW
GOLDSMIDT, Joseph M 50 1791 Foreign VIEW
DEAN, Charlotte F 40 1801 VIEW
BRAITHWAITE, George M 55 1786 VIEW
BRAITHWAITE, Susan F 60 1781 VIEW
LONG, Charles M 28 1813 VIEW
LONG, Mary F 28 1813 VIEW
LONG, Richard M 78 1763 VIEW
LONG, Ann F 70 1771 VIEW
PIPER, James M 24 1817 VIEW
CHISMAN, William M 30 1811 Middlesex VIEW
TAYLOR, William M 25 1816 Middlesex VIEW
TAYLOR, Charlotte F 75 1766 Middlesex VIEW
THORNTON, Charlotte F 50 1791
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Someone posted this on an earlier thread I was on. I think your family may fall into several of thesw categories.
For anyone looking for the following , from the Guildhall Library
LOCATIONS OF THE COMPANIES' RECORDS
3. The following companies retain their apprenticeship and membership records, and enquiries about them should be made to the Clerk of the company at the address given:
Clothworkers
Clothworkers' Hall, Dunster Court, London EC3R 7AH
Drapers
Drapers' Hall, 27 Throgmorton Street, London EC2N 2DQ
Goldsmiths
Goldsmiths' Hall, Foster Lane, London EC2V 6BN
Leathersellers
Leathersellers' Hall, 15 St Helen's Place, London EC3A 6DQ
Mercers
Mercers' Hall, Ironmonger Lane, London EC2V 8HE
Saddlers
Saddlers' Hall, Gutter Lane, London EC2V 6BR (Note: some records of apprentices 1658-65 and members 1624-6 included in Court minutes in Guildhall Library, microfilm copy of apprentice bindings 1800-1962 held at Guildhall Library)
Salters
Salters' Hall, Fore Street, London EC2Y 5DE
Stationers
Stationers' Hall, London EC4M 7DD (Note: microfilm copies at St Bride Printing Library, Bride Lane, London EC4Y 8EE; appointment necessary to view)
4. The non-current apprenticeship and membership records of the following companies are in Guildhall Library:
Apothecaries, Armourers and Brasiers
Bakers, Barbers (ca. 1540-1745 Barber Surgeons), Basketmakers, Blacksmiths, Bowyers, Brewers, Broderers, Butchers
Carmen, Carpenters, Clockmakers, Coach and Coach Harness Makers, Combmakers, Cooks, Coopers, Cordwainers, Curriers, Cutlers
Distillers, Dyers
Fanmakers, Farriers, Fellowship Porters, Feltmakers, Fishmongers, Fletchers, Founders, Framework Knitters, Fruiterers
Gardeners, Girdlers, Glass Sellers, Glaziers, Glovers, Gold and Silver Wyre Drawers, Grocers, Gunmakers
Haberdashers, Horners
Innholders, Ironmongers
Joiners and Ceilers
Longbowstringmakers, Loriners
Masons, Merchant Taylors#, Musicians
Needlemakers
Painter Stainers, Parish Clerks, Pattenmakers, Paviors, Pewterers, Pinmakers, Plaisterers, Playing Card Makers, Plumbers, Poulters
Saddlers (some only, see paragraph 3), Scriveners, Shipwrights, Skinners, Spectacemakers
Tacklehouse and Ticket Porters, Tallow Chandlers, Tin Plate Workers, Tobacco Pipe Makers, Turners, Tylers and Bricklayers
Upholders
Vintners
Watermen and Lightermen, Wax Chandlers, Weavers
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Did you obtain the death certificate for the possible death mentioned on page 1 a year ago?
Deaths Mar 1865
LONG Richard Westminster 1a 260
Since that's likely to be the one bit of actual documentation easily available, if that is your Richard as it seems it probably is, I hope so!
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Trying to refind the thread ...
On page 1 you said
Problem:- I cannot find any information on Richard Long or Mary other than the 1841 census.
LadyKira (Christine) proposed, on page 1, in 1861:
Address: 8, Emery Hills Almshouses, St John The Evangelist, Westminster
LONG, Richard Head Widower 82 1779
Almsman Formerly Gold Lace Weaver
Westminster Middlesex
I pointed out, on page 3, that the Richard and Mary from the 1841 were, in 1851:
Name: Richard Long
Age: 72
Estimated birth year: abt 1779
Spouse's name: Mary
Where born: Westr, Middlesex, England
Civil parish: Westminster St John The Evangelist
Occupation: horace weaver
Presumably the same man as LadyKira's 1861 Richard.
This would be a good reason to get that death cert -- that Richard was a widower when he died so a child may have been the informant (although likely not, if he was in the almshouse).
Dea proposed, on page 2, in 1851:
Richard Long
Age: 49
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1802
Spouse's Name: Ann
Where born: Westminster, Middlesex, England
Civil Parish: St Martin in The Fields
Occupation: orris weaver
Apparently a little young to be your Henry's father, but quite possibly a brother ... or uncle. It is still possible that your Henry was, e.g., a child of an unmarried daughter of Richard and Mary, who named his maternal grandfather as his father when he married. This was not uncommon. But we're working from the hypothesis that he was the son of Richard Long and Mary Fry, the 1800 marriage in the IGI?
Of course this is the point at which many of us are stymied, since records are not readily available, and the parish records that exist often do not contain enough information (mother's surname, or even mother's given name once we are back into the 1700s) to match up anyhow.
At least we've settled that the Richard and Mary from 1841 whom you were focusing on initially have been identified in 1851 and (for Richard) in 1861?
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London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906
about Lydia Catherine Long
Name: Lydia Catherine Long
Record Type: Baptism
Date: 8 Aug 1813
Father's Name: Richard Long
Mother's Name: Mary Long
Parish: St Margaret, St Margaret Street, Westminster
Borough: Westminster
County: Middlesex
born 18 july
Residence Strutton Ground
fathers occ orris weaver
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Name: Henry Thomas Long
Record Type: Baptism
Date: 8 Oct 1815
Father's Name: Richard Long
Mother's Name: Mary Long
Parish: St Margaret, St Margaret Street, Westminster
Borough: Westminster
County: Middlesex
born 2 Sept (I think -a little diff to read)
Fathers occ Orris weaver
Residence Strutton Ground
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1851 census - household transcription
Person: LONG, Henry
Address: 1, Francis Place, Saint Margarets, Westminster
LONG, Henry Unmarried M 34 1817 Weaver
Saint Margarets Westminster
Middlesex
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Hi Christine
The last three entries you posted seem to tie in very well.
Lydia Long I am "assuminhg" is Henry's sster?
Henry in census anhd Baptismal record appears to tie in also.l
Many thanks for that. Had no luck with the websites you posted previously.
Janey thanks for "simplyfying thye thread for me.
No I have not ordered the death cert for Richard not sure other than the personh who was the informant would prove. But do not have a problem orderinhg it,
Not sure where to go from here.
Thank you both much appreciated,
Paula
PS sorry if there are any mistakes on this thead just got a new keyboard the the "touch" is completely different to the old one. Although the "KEYS"
are still thye same place (lol) although you might not believe it!!
PSS Just read this thread back and thought I would leave the typos in for effect!
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