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I've lost the thread a bit; is this your Richard in 1841?


Name: Richard Long
Age: 61
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1780
Where born: Middlesex, England

Civil parish: St Margaret
Hundred: Westminster
County/Island: Middlesex

>> Occupation: Orris weaver (from the image)

Richard Long 61
Henry Long 20
George Long 15
Mary Long 60
Lydia Long 25
Fanny Long 9


He's in district 34, St Margaret, William is in district 29.

Interesting, though -- this may be the man in 1841:

Name: William Long
Age: 40
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1801
Where born: Middlesex, England

>> Occupation: Orris weaver (from the image)

Civil parish: St Margaret
Hundred: Westminster
County/Island: Middlesex

William Long 40
William Long 13
John Long 11
Henry Long 10
Thomas Long 6
George Long 3
Ann Long 35
Fanny Long 9
Emma Long 8
Charlotte Long 5
Ann Long 6 Mo

Heh, if your Longs are like my Hills and Barnards, they all had the same danged names. ;)

James & William Hill, Richard & Thomas Barnard ... long lines of the boogers, vertically and horizontally.

A William Long who had a son born in 1778 would have been born 1750-60ish or maybe earlier, making him a little advanced in age in 1823-27.

But maybe William & Mary had a son William too!


edit --

'27 December 1778 Richard Long S. of William by Mary' - in the 'Born' column after the entry it says: 'Nov'r 12'

You don't think that's your Richard, parents William and Mary?

Have had a reply from Westminister Archives and this is what I have had sent

'27 December 1778 Richard Long S.of William by Mary' - in the 'Born' column after the entry it says: 'Nov'r 12'

Wonder if this is the William mentioned that Janey posted?

Thanks Janey for the informatiom. It is posible that William is related but to be honest I have not got a clue how!

Dea/Christine.

Heard back from Westminister City Archives. No records were kept for admissions to Emery Hills only administration documents.

Apprenticeship records - nothing available.

They searched the parish records for St Johns for Richard Long c1780 - nothing.

The lady I spoke to was very helpful and said she would try and get a colleague to see if any Parish records came up for St Margarets Wesstminister. So fingers crossed. Otherwise a dead end I fear.

Thanks everyone

Regards

Paula

I just took a poke at the National Archives to see whether there might be any relevant records.

On a search for

"orris weaver" long

These are the possibly relevant results -- they all relate to insurance policies:


Information relating to document ref. no. MS 11936/515/1058555
Insured: William Long, 27 Old Rochester Row, Tothill Fields, orris weaver Other property or occupiers: Nicholson. [Guildhall Library, Records of Sun Fire...] Date: 1827.
Source: Access to Archives (A2A): not kept at The National Archives

I gather Tothill Fields is in Westminster. A relation, maybe?



Information relating to document ref. no. MS 11936/498/1005744
Insured: John Tarrant and Edward Bartlett in trust for Mary the wife of James Probatt Other property or occupiers: Artillery Place Tothill Fields (Long orris weaver; Cleave carpenter); 32 Artillery Place Tothill Fields (Clark) 33 Artillery Place Tothill Date: 1823.
Source: Access to Archives (A2A): not kept at The National Archives

Information relating to document ref. no. MS 11936/504/1033966
Insured: William Tart and Mary Probatt 12 South Lambeth Other property or occupiers: Artillery Place Tothill Fields (Long orris weaver) (Cleave carpenter); 32 Artillery Place (Clark); 33 Artillery Place (Dinclay carpenter); 27 to 30 Artillery Place.. [Guildhall Date: 1825.
Source: Access to Archives (A2A): not kept at The National Archives

I don't know whether that means that Long was an orris weaver and Cleave was a carpenter, but it seems to.

That seems the right way to go Paula,

I hope you get somewhere with this.

Dea x

Thanks Christine will try and do as you suggested


Regards Paula

PS I have just spoken to Westminister City Ciouncil and they are having a look to se if they have an Archive Reocrds. They are also checking for apprenticeship records. What they said was that in th late 1700's the family may have paid for the apprenticeship to a Orris Weaver and in that case the family would have held the Indentures for this. If it was paid by the Charity they may have details - it all depends on the circumstance of the family at the time of the apprenticeship.

My suggestions would be to find out if there are any records for the almshouses and my second would be to get in touch with the weavers company re apprenticesips.

Thanks Christine.

They could be related but I don't know whether I am being a bit slow here but I cannot see for the life of me how I would make a connection?

I must admist I am getting a bit fed up with it now!

I appreciate all the input from everyone. I really need to try and find out how to make a connection to move backwards further with this line of the family.

Many thanks

Paula

1841 Address: St Martin Street, St Martin In The Fields, Suffolk Street, Westminster
CARNEY, Lett M 30 1811 Ireland VIEW
CARNEY, Mary Ann F 25 1816 Middlesex VIEW
CARNEY, James M 7 1834 Middlesex VIEW
CARNEY, William M 2 1839 Middlesex VIEW
CARNEY, Mary Ann F 4 1837 Middlesex VIEW
LONG, Henry M 30 1811 Middlesex VIEW
LONG, Sarah F 30 1811 Middlesex VIEW
LONG, Mary F 9 1832 Middlesex VIEW
LONG, Lydia F 7 1834 Middlesex VIEW
LONG, Martha F 2 1839 Middlesex VIEW
DAY, William M 55 1786 VIEW
DAY, Sarah F 50 1791 VIEW
DAY, Mary F 15 1826 Middlesex VIEW
BLACKWELL, Ebenezer M 30 1811 Middlesex VIEW
BLACKWELL, Ann F 25 1816 VIEW
BLACKWELL, Frederick M 3 1838 Middlesex VIEW
BROAD, William M 20 1821 VIEW
FURS, Henry M 25 1816 VIEW
HALE, Martha F 40 1801 VIEW
HALE, Fanny F 9 1832 Middlesex VIEW
HALE, Alfred M 2 1839 Middlesex VIEW

No this Henry is a Clark

wonder if this is connected

1841 Address: Sander's Court, St John The Evangelist, Westminster
LONG, Richard M 35 1806 Middlesex VIEW
LONG, Richard M 15 1826 Middlesex VIEW
LONG, Mary F 16 1825 Middlesex VIEW
LONG, Lydia F 11 1830 Middlesex VIEW
LONG, Alfred M 9 1832 Middlesex VIEW
LONG, Euphemia F 8 1833 Middlesex VIEW
LONG, Charlotte F 5 1836 Middlesex

I was looking for Lydia 1816 but came up with this

could be interesting


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


LYDIA ELIZA LONG Pedigree
Female


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Event(s):
Birth:
Christening: 25 JAN 1852 Saint Anne Soho, Westminster, London, England

Death:
Burial:


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Parents:
Father: RICHARD LONG Family
Mother: JANE


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Messages:
Extracted birth or christening record for the locality listed in the record. The source records are usually arranged chronologically by the birth or christening date.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Source Information:
Batch No.: Dates: Source Call No.: Type: Printout Call No.: Type:

C062361

Just back from work so good to see progress made

Thought

Have you tried Weavers company for apprenticeship records?

Thanks Ann and Dea for your replies.

I understand what you mean Dea but I can't find anything to tie in with this

I only know that on all the census for the whole of the Long family they are always born Westminister Middx. or in the case of my 2 x Grandfather Pimilico same district.

I am not sure how I would confirm any of these details?

I wish they started the census a lot earlier than 1841!

Thanks Paula

Hi Paula,

What I am trying to say is that there was another Richard Long born in Westminster c1801/1802 who was an Orris weaver and was just about at an age when he could have been the father of Henry.

The one you have on 1861 in the Alms House is most certainly the one with wife Mary and Henry and the others on 1841 and there is a 22 year difference which means that the Richard in the Alms house would have been old enough to marry Mary Fry in 1800 and father a Richard around 1801?

Richard + Mary are therefore equaly qualified to be either parents or Grandparents to Henry

This could, of course, be a complete 'red herring' but I still feel that both possibilites are there ?

Best of luck with it - I will see if I can find anything else for you.

Dea x

the chances are that if he was in Emery Hills Almshouse then he was born in that area as people were often sent back to be a charge on their birth parish

Dea thanks for the input. I did notice the info you put last time when I re-submitted my thread.

1851 - Two things the age of Richard being 49 and therefore birth of 1802 this would be 22 years out.

Also 1861 Richard Long was in Emery Hills Almshouse and a widower

The family always appear to come from Westminster although the marriage posted for 1846 is ihn Lambeth

Thanks for looking. I shall check familysearch again for any possible information

Marriages Dec 1846 ........... 'perhaps' a possibility ?

Allen George Lambeth 4 353
Earle John Lambeth 4 353
****Long Richard Cornelius Lambeth 4 353 ?????
Miell Sarah Lambeth 4 353
Parker Joseph William Lambeth 4 353
Smith Eleanor Lambeth 4 353
Thomas Ruth Lambeth 4 353
****Westbey Ann Jane Lambeth 4 353 ???????

The Ann with Richard from the 1851 is still with him as 'Ann J' on 1861 + daughter Ann E aged 8

Dea x

Hi,

I hope you don't mind but I have brought this forward from your original thread as I still think it is a
possibility worth following in the absence of anything better ?

It would fit in with the Richard Long marriage to Mary Fry, and also with the following christening which I
found at the time on IGI: (I don't know whether this was extracted or submitted and I can't check as it is
not on there now - they 'rotate' their info every 6 weeks or so - some is taken off and some is added
- Goodness knows why!!)

Henry Long, Birth/Christening, 1810 - 1830, England, British Isles
Father: Richard , Mother: Lydia

Henry Long - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Birth: 17 JAN 1817 London, London, England
.............................................................................

This is what I originally posted:

I have a 'sneeky' feeling that the Richard + Mary on 1841 will turn out to be grandparents !!

I have found this as a possible on 1851:

Richard Long
Age: 49
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1802
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Ann
Gender: Male
Where born: Westminster, Middlesex, England

Civil Parish: St Martin in The Fields
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England

Registration district: St Martin In The Fields
Sub registration district: Long Acre
ED, institution, or vessel: 3
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 230
Household Members: Name Age

Ann Long 39
Richard Long 49 - - Orris Weaver !!!

Living at 18 Mercers Street?

Source Citation: Class: HO107; Piece: 1482; Folio: 70; Page: 50; GSU roll: 87807.

Dea x

P.S. - I think that Ann was a second wife and his first wife MAY have been Lydia,
so maybe wife no. 2 didn't want the children?

Dea x
...............................................

Unfortunately, I have been unable to find anything to prove this but perhaps someone else can?

I think we need to find a birth of a Richard to Richard Long + Mary Fry around 1801 and a
marriage for Richard c1801 to Lydia and/or Ann ? - Maybe he never actually married Lydia as he would have been quite young at the time - around 16 - Not too young though?)

Dea x