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Thanks so much Ladykira for the clear details you have given me ,Iwill try to trace some of bettys decendents Catherine

just to clarify Janey's 1857 marriage in Preston where both grooms are missing

Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1857
BLAND Eliza
HOYLE Richard
Preston Register Office or Registrar Attended

CATHERINE - please could you confirm where you got the name Elizabeth Bland from - do you have William Henry's birth certificate?

in that 1858 marriage on page 2 from Lancsbmd John Hope married Ann Whitehead & Elizabeth Spencer married Alex Robertson (the missing groom)

Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1858
SPENCER Elizabeth
ROBERTSON Alexander Gordon Campbell
Rochdale Register Office or Registrar Attended

I wonder???????????




1841 census - household transcription
Person: BLANK, Elizh
Address: Gamston


BLANK, William M 35 1806 Nottinghamshire VIEW
BLANK, Ann F 7 1834 Nottinghamshire VIEW
BLANK, Elizh F 5 1836 Nottinghamshire VIEW
HODGSON, Maria F 20 1821 VIEW

True, she did.

The Elizabeth Bland in Selston in 1841 (and 1851) is the one I referred to earlier, who seems to be different from "our" Elizabeth Bland.


I liked the one you had on page 2 (minus the bumph):

ELIZA BLAND
Christening: 24 SEP 1837 Gedling, Nottingham, England
Father: WILLIAM BLAND
Mother: ANN
Batch No: C044731

1841 census - household transcription
Person: BLAND, Elizabeth
Address: Jack's Dale, Selston


BLAND, Richard M 40 1801 Nottinghamshire VIEW
BLAND, Elizabeth F 40 1801 Nottinghamshire VIEW
BLAND, Elizabeth F 9 1832 Nottinghamshire VIEW
BLAND, Thomas M 6 1835 Nottinghamshire VIEW
BLAND, Rebecca F 3 1838 Nottinghamshire VIEW
BLAND, Ann F 1 1840 Nottinghamshire

Catherine does know how to get back to her thread because she did so at the beginning of the thread.

Just to note that the Elizabeth Bland born c1832, in the 1841 and 1851 censuses, is accounted for in baptism records:

ELIZABETH BLAND
Christening: 24 SEP 1831 Selston, Nottingham, England
Father: RICHD. BLAND
Mother: ELIZABETH
Batch No.: C044731

Eliza Bland baptised in Gedling had no sibs in the same batch, unfortunately.

I don't think you'll find George and his sister together -- in 1851 she'd been married a good 12 years:


John Hope 35
Betty Hope 36
Thomas Hope 12
George Hope 10
Ann Hope 7
Ellen Hope 5
William Hope 2 - son aged 32 in 1881 census


Looks like Betty had son Thomas before marriage -- 1841:

John Hope 25
Elizabeth Hope 25
John Spencer 20
Margret Spencer 15
Thomas Spencer 2
Civil parish: Whalley
Hundred: Blackburn (Higher Division)

John and Margaret would seem to be her sibs, I guess.

Aargh, I see the Spencer-Hope connection. Not to Elizabeth, but to George!

Mea culpa, many lashes with a wet noodle. ;)


Best you should PM Catherine with instructions for finding her thread, reading replies and replying in the thread, I think!

there are no Blands residing in Papplewick in 1841 or 1851

1881 census - household transcription
Person: SPENCER, Willm Hy
Address: 24, Barnes St, Clayton-Le-Moors


HOPE, Betty Head Widow F 66 1815 House Keeper
Clayton Le Moors
Lancashire VIEW
HOPE, William Son Single M 32 1849 Cotton Grinder
Clayton Le Moors
Lancashire VIEW
HOPE, John Grand Son Single M 11 1870 Scholar
Clayton Le Moors
Lancashire VIEW
MERCER, Jacob Grand Son Single M 8 1873 Scholar
Clayton Le Moors
Lancashire VIEW
SPENCER, Willm Hy Nephew Single M 19 1862 Laborer Print Works
Manchester
Lancashire

William Henry is Catherine's
grandfather living with George's sister so trying to find George and his sister together to establish parents and possible birth details-so far unsucessful. Could do with something more specific than somewhere near Blackburn.

Things are still not adding up Catherine. Need some more input from what you know as it is a fairly common name.

In 1871, Elizabeth reports Papplewick as birthplace.
Papplewick and Gedling are both in Basford reg dist -- about 6 miles apart. (Forming a triangle with Calverton, home of my mother's mother's mother's family.)

1851 doesn't show any Blands born in either place, unfortunately!

And 1841 and 1851 don't have an Eliz* Bland of the right kind of age.

1841 and 1851: Elizabeth/Elizth Bland in Selston born Selston 1832 -- that's Basford reg dist. And in 1840, an Elizabeth Bland in Snenton, Radford reg dist.

The 1837 baptism looks good -- so where is she??

I'm not understanding the Spencer-Hope connection, LK.

Elizabeth was Spencer in 1861 by virtue of her marriage(?) to Spencer - she wouldn't have been marrying someone else as Spencer in 1858 I don't think.

I guess we're assuming Catherine knows Elizabeth's birth surname was Bland, from a child's birth certificate.

She could have married Spencer under a different surname, but I don't think she would have married someone else first as Spencer. ;)

There is this one worth tracking

ELIZA BLAND Pedigree
Female


Christening: 24 SEP 1837 Gedling, Nottingham, England

Death:
Burial:


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Parents:
Father: WILLIAM BLAND Family
Mother: ANN



C044731

1841 census - household transcription
Person: SPENCER, Elizabeth
Address: Union Stree, Blackburn
WOOD, Henry M 30 1811 VIEW
WOOD, Joseph M 5 1836 Lancashire VIEW
WOOD, Mary F 3 1838 Lancashire VIEW
SPENCER, Elizabeth F 25 1816 Lancashire VIEW
HOLDEN, Richard M 20 1821 Lancashire

This is worth a second look

the spencer hope marriage is
Marriages Dec 1858 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hartley Joseph Rochdale 8e 46
Hope John Rochdale 8e 46
Spencer Elizabeth Rochdale 8e 46
Stott Elizabeth Rochdale 8e 46
Whitehead Ann Rochdale 8e 46


but

Person: HOPE, Betty
1851 Address: Lower Chequers, Clayton Le Moors
HOPE, John Head Married M 35 1816 Coal Miner
Whalley
Lancashire VIEW
HOPE, Betty Wife Married F 36 1815
Whalley
Lancashire VIEW
HOPE, Thomas Son M 12 1839 Errand Boy
Whalley
Lancashire VIEW
HOPE, George Son M 10 1841 Scholar
Whalley
Lancashire VIEW
HOPE, Ann Daughter F 7 1844 Scholar
Whalley
Lancashire VIEW

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RG number:
HO107 Piece:
2257 Folio:
132 Page:
9

Registration District:
Blackburn Sub District:
Great Harwood EnumerationDistrict:
1C Ecclesiastical Parish:
All Saints

Civil Parish:
Clayton Le Moors Municipal Borough:
Address:
Lower Chequers, Clayton Le Moors County:
Lancashire



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1861 census - household transcription
Person: HOPE, Betty
Address: Wellington Street, Whalley Clayton Le Moors

HOPE, John Head Married M 45 1816 Mason Labourer
Clayton Le Moors
Lancashire VIEW
HOPE, Betty Wife Married F 45 1816
Clayton Le Moors
Lancashire VIEW
HOPE, Abram Son Unmarried M 23 1838 Cotton Spinner
Clayton Le Moors
Lancashire VIEW
HOPE, George Son Unmarried M 21 1840 Lab...
Clayton Le Moors
Lancashire VIEW
HOPE, Ann Daughter Unmarried F 19 1842 Cotton Weaver
Clayton Le Moors
Lancashire VIEW
HOPE, Elizabeth Daughter Unmarried F 17 1844 Cotton Weaver
Clayton Le Moors
Lancashire VIEW
HOPE, William Son M 13 1848 Cotton Creeler
Clayton Le Moors
Lancashire

1871 census - household transcription
Person: HOPE, Betty
Address: Barnes Street, Clayton Le Moors
HOPE, Betty Head F 55 1816 Lancashire VIEW
HOPE, Ellen Daughter F 25 1846 Lancashire VIEW
HOPE, William Son M 23 1848 Lancashire VIEW
HOPE, John Grandson M 2 1869 Lancashire VIEW
HOPE, Elizabeth Granddaughter F 9 1862 Lancashire