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For reference:

Marriages Jun 1900 (>99%)
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Evans Griffith Pontypridd 11a 983
Lewis Florence Pontypridd 11a 983

Ah this looks like Phyllis' birth:

Births Mar 1898 (>99%)
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LEWIS Phyllis May Pontypridd 11a 555

Could be a coincidence, but this Evans family were at 45 High St in 1881 with son Griffth born around the right time.

However, his mum is shown as a widower.

Name Relation Marital Status Gender Age Birthplace Occupation
Ann EVANS Head W Female 38 Llangoedmor, Cardigan, Wales
David EVANS Son Male 13 Merthyr, Glamorgan, Wales Coal Miner
Margaret EVANS Daur Female 11 Merthyr, Glamorgan, Wales Scholar
Sarah Ann EVANS Daur Female 10 Merthyr, Glamorgan, Wales Scholar
Griffith B. EVANS Son Male 3 Ystradyfodwg, Glamorgan, Wales


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Source Information:
Dwelling 45 High Street
Census Place Ystradyfodwg, Glamorgan, Wales
Family History Library Film 1342275
Public Records Office Reference RG11
Piece / Folio 5301 / 107
Page Number 12

soo...have you tried ordering any birth certificates? or just looked in the IGI?

Births Jun 1878 (>99%)
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Evans Griffith Merthyr Tydfil 11a 458

I think the one in the above 1881 census is this one:

Births Jun 1877 (>99%)
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EVANS Griffith Benjamin Pontypridd 11a 423

Generally, if Griffith's father was deceased at the time of his marriage, it would say 'decd' in brackets after the father's name (tho it may still state his occupation).

You can submit a certificate request with the GRO with specific parameters, ie father's name William. If they look it up and that is not the case, they will charge you a reduced fee. You don't get the cert but at least you are not paying full price for a cert you don't need!

Hi and thanks to all again.
Cherilyn, thanks for all your help and although I had seen this
family before I did not realise they lived at 45 High Street. Seems amazing coincidence.
The fact that it is Griffith B put me off originally. I will send for birth
cert. Also I forgot that Phyllis would be Lewis and not Evans as they
did not marry until two years after her birth!
Hi Barbara thanks for the interest- Griffith was indeed my grandfather.
His son Ivor was my father.
Hello Ozibird, I think you might be right! One problem I get is that there
Are 3 High Streets listed in Ystradyfodwg and there is no way to tell which is
which. On the marriage cert it is 45 high st, treorchy . I use findmypast to check addresses – any advice on this:-)

you might find this site interesting
http://www.anglesey.info/Family_History_in_the_Rhondda_Valleys.htm

I'd checked Griffith Benjamin out and discarded him as this is him in 1901.

1901 Wales Census
Name: Griffith Benj Evans
Age in 1901: 26
Estimated birth year: abt 1875
Relation: Son
Mother's Name: Ann
Gender: Male
Where born: Dowlais, Glamorgan, Wales
Civil parish: Ystradyfodwg
Ecclesiastical parish: Ystradyfodwg St John
County/Island: Glamorgan
Country: Wales
Street Address: 115 High St
Condition as to marriage: single
Occupation: Coal hewer
Registration district: Pontypridd
Sub-registration district: Ystradyfodwg
ED, institution, or vessel: 16
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 88
Household Members:
Name Age
Ann Salathiel 58 - shopkeeper - green grocer
David Evans 33 - coal hewer
Griffith Benj Evans 26


In 1891 he is a Door Boy in the mines [how horrible] and is living at 166 High Street

I also think this is the family in 1871 with Sarah mistranscribed. There is no Hannah Ann registered at Merthyr in the time frame but several Sarah Anns.

The deciding factor is that wife, Ann, is from Cardiganshire as she is in 1881 & 1891. Children all born in Merthyr.

1871 Wales Census
Name: Ann Evans
Age: 29
Estimated birth year: abt 1842
Relation: Wife
Spouse's name: John
Gender: Female
Where born: Cardiganshire, Wales
Civil parish: Merthyr Tydfil
Ecclesiastical parish: Dowlais
Town: Dowlais
County/Island: Glamorgan
Country: Wales
Registration district: Merthyr Tydfil
Sub-registration district: Upper Merthyr Tydfil
ED, institution, or vessel: 15
Household schedule number: 68
Household Members:
Name Age
John Evans 38 - coal miner
Ann Evans 29
David Evans 4
Margaret Evans 2
Hannah A Evans 9 months

I've also been doing a bit of delving myself. I've been looking for all the Griffith Evans registered in the time frame we have from 1901 & 1911. Here's the results so far. I'm still working on the Festiniog lot.

The brackets infer that any of those parents could belong to any of the registered boys.

Births Jun 1878 - Mar 1879

Evans Griffith Carnarvon 11b 440 - parents are Griffith (miller & farmer) & Ellen; OR Moses (labourer) & Catherine.
Evans Griffith Corwen 11b 423 } - parents are William (farmer) & Margaret
Evans Griffith Corwen 11b 428 } - mother is Susan (though 68 so must be grandmother); living in Lancashire in 1901.
Evans Griffith Dolgelly 11b 379 - Jonathan (stone mason) & Janet
Evans Griffith Festiniog 11b 472 } - John (Gen Labourer) & Elizabeth
Evans Griffith Festiniog 11b 458 } -
Evans Griffith Festiniog 11b 426 } -
Evans Griffith Liverpool 8b 106 - John G (Porter) & Jane; living with his step-father in 1901
Evans Griffith Machynlleth 11b 186 - Evan (Quarry Labourer Slate) & Jane
Evans Griffith Merthyr Tydfil 11a 458 - Evan (Underground Fireman) & Catherine; coal miner in 1901
Evans Griffith Pontardawe 11a 634 - John (iron stone miner) & Gwen
Evans Griffith Etheridge Festiniog 11b 477 - William (Coal Miner) & Mary; or Ellis (mariner) & Gwen
Evans Griffith Lewis Dolgelly 11b 433 - Hugh (Farmer Of 15 Acres) & Elizabeth; ag lab in 1901

Festiniog is tricky. It spans the counties of Caernarvonshire and Merionethshire. Griffith, son of Ellis & Gwen, is born Caernarvonshire in Penmorfa, district of Festiniog. In 1891 he is recorded as Griffith E. Evans.


Not sure where these were registered, in 1881 recorded as born & living in the district stated.
Evans Griffith Pwllheli - Thomas (ag lab) & Mary
Evans Griffith Pwllheli - Griffith (miller & farmer) & Mary
Evans Griffith Carmarthen - William (coal miner) & Eliza; still living in Llanarthney in 1901
Evans Griffith Pugh Calcutta, India/Aberystwith - mother is Emilia Savi Evans; undergraduate at the University of Oxford in 1901


REMEMBER!!!!!! This is all unsubstantiated. There seems to be more Griffith Evans in the censuses than are registered for that time frame.

I'm not sure what you mean by 3 High Streets. There is only one High Street in Ystradyfodwg in 1881 & 1891. However it is covered by more than one enumerator. There is still only one number 45.

On findmypast if you search by High Street & Ystradyfodwg you will get one long list. If you search by High Street & Treorchy you get nothing. This is for both 1881 & 1891.

Ozi

Hi Ozi,
Can't thank you enough for all the work youve done. You must be so organised cos the info youve given me would have taken me weeks to get together!! I am particularly interested in the fact that you discounted Griffith B(Benjamin). I was thinking that this person may have been him - I would never have thought of checking him out at a later date as you have done, so I have learnt an important lesson here which I am sure will help me in future searches. However, I am still stuck on this one. Surely there must be an answer! If not, I would once again thank you for the work.
cheers,
Ken.
PS To everybody, I would like to say that because of the nature of my job there will usually be delays in my replies but this doesnt mean I dont value each and every response.

I'm house-bound at the moment Ken, so this is giving me something to do. Usually I shy away from Welsh searches as they are so confusing. This looks as if I'm doing it easily but it's years of practise.

This is the most likely one for your bloke so far.

1881 Wales Census
Name: William Evans
Age: 30
Estimated birth year: abt 1851
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Mary
Gender: Male
Where born: Montgomeryshire, Wales
Civil parish: Ystradyfodwg
County/Island: Glamorgan
Country: Wales
Street Address: 45 Greenfield Row
Condition as to marriage: Married

Occupation: Coal Miner
Registration district: Pontypridd
Sub-registration district: Ystradyfodwg
ED, institution, or vessel: 16
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
William Evans 30
Mary Evans 26 - Llanwrnam, Cardiganshire
Mary E. Evans 7 - Llanwrnam, Cardiganshire
Wm. John Evans 5 - Cwmpark, Glamorgan
Griffith E. Evans 3 - Ffestiniog, Merionethshire
Isaac E. Evans 1 - Cwmpark, Glamorgan



Bother, Griffith is missing.
1891 Wales Census
Name: William Evans
Age: 39
Estimated birth year: abt 1852
Relation: Head
Gender: Male
Where born: Llanfair, Montgomeryshire, Wales
Civil parish: Llanwonno
Town: Ynysybwl
County/Island: Glamorgan
Country: Wales
Street Address: 46 Augusta St
Condition as to marriage: widowed

Occupation: Coal miner Windsor Pit
Registration district: Pontypridd
Sub-registration district: Llanwonno
Household Members:
Name Age
William Evans 39
Mary Evans 17 - Housekeeper; Llanafan, Cardiganshire
William J Evans 15 - coal miner Windsor Pit; Cwmpark
Isaac Evans 11 - scholar; Cwmpark
Evan E Evans 8 - scholar; Cwmpark
Thomas Evans 5 - scholar; Cwmpark
Sarah Evans 20 - boarder; dressmaker; Llanfair, Montgomery [My guess is that she's a relation of William snr come to help after his wife's death.]

They all speak both Welsh and English.


Births Mar 1882
EVANS Evan Edward Pontypridd 11a 378

Well done Ozi!

Possibility:


1891 Wales Census
Name: Griffith Evans
Age: 13
Estimated birth year: abt 1878
Relation: Patient
Gender: Male
Where born: Festining, Merionethshire, Wales
Civil parish: St John
Ecclesiastical parish: St John
Town: Cardiff
County/Island: Glamorgan
Country: Wales

Occupation: Collier
Registration district: Cardiff
Sub-registration district: Cardiff
ED, institution, or vessel: Glamorganshire and Monmouthshire Infirmary


I didn't record the page full of other patients. If this is him do you think it is why he became a hairdresser and not a collier? He could've had weak lungs.

Just thinking aloud.

Ozi

Do witness names on marriage help?
Do you know when he died?

Thanks Ozi! yeah you do make it look easy. Trust me, just writing this takes me an age! So if you had to make a decision which one do you think it is? I appreciate it so much. dont blame you for avoiding Welsh names, it is a nightmare.
Hi Jansmith, names of witnesses are Lizzie P. Evans and Frank Young. Sorry don't have date of death but am looking.
Could be cos of lungs - very unusual profession.
Is it at all possible that Griffith was never registered at birth?

hi ozi. Do you think this helps? when jansmith asked about witnesses i typed in Frank Young and put his birth date same as Griffiths plus or minus 10 years. only two came up and the one in ponty lived at 35 greenfield row which is ten doors down from the address that you gave me for Griffith E Evans(no45 Greenfield row) Still leaves some unanswered questions. Why E Evans when there is no E on future census. Also where did he go. Anychance you can have a look cos I getting more confused but I think it may be a good lead. Thanks Jansmith!

Hi everyone. I have just found an Elizabeth P. Evans who also lived in Greenfield Row in 1881 and was same age as Griffith. I think then this must be my ancester as these two people(Frank Young no. 35 and Elizabeth no.26) were the same names as his marriage witnesses! Thanks Ozi for finding the info and letting me know about Griffith E. It seems his middle name was Etheridge. Strange!! Would still like to know what conclusion everybody would come to. I'm so grateful to everyone you'll never know. I hope I got this right and am getting used to all this now so hopefully will be able to help others as you have helped me.
Just one more thing, if ive got all this hopelessly wrong please tell me cos I am nearly at the point of printing off tree for all my family. cheers, ken.

I think Greenfield Row has to be a clincher.

Also in 1881 Griffith is the only one born Festiniog. Perhaps his family couldn't remember exactly where they were living when he was born.


Here's William and the younger boys in 1901.

1901 Wales Census
Name: William Evans
Age in 1901: 51
Estimated birth year: abt 1850
Relation: Boarder
Gender: Male
Where born: Llanfaircaercenion, Montgomeryshire, Wales
Civil parish: Ystradyfodwg
Ecclesiastical parish: Llwynypia St Andrew
County/Island: Glamorgan
Country: Wales
Street Address: 10 Railway Terrace
Condition as to marriage: widowed

Occupation: Coal miner hewer below ground

Registration district: Pontypridd
Sub-registration district: Ystradyfodwg
ED, institution, or vessel: 55
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 76
Household Members:
Name Age
Albert Watkins 35
Mary Elizabeth Watkins 27
Robert John Watkins 9
Frances Mary Watkins 8
Elizabeth Ann Watkins 4
Isaac Thomas Watkins 2
William Evans 51
Evan Edward Evans 19 - Coal miner hewer below ground; Cwmparc
Abraham Thomas Evans 15 - Coal miner labourer below ground; Cwmparc
Frederick Robert Watkins 23 - brother & visitor
Elizabeth Price Evans 23 - visitor; Cwmparc <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<


From: http://www.bbc.co.uk/wales/mid/sites/llanfaircaereinion/
Llanfair Caereinion in Montgomeryshire's Banwy Valley is one of the smallest towns in Powys. Almost 3,000 people lived here in the mid 19th century when the woollen industry was at its peak.

Glad the witness name looks like it has helped!

Excellent thinking, jansmith. It made ken think out of the square and it seems confirmation, if not definite proof. Though Elizabeth P with William snr in 1901 would certainly be trumps for me!

Ozi