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I am very good at spending other people's money on red herrings aren't I?

Too bad about the death certificate, I was quite hopeful.

I think I am stumped. Time is short now that the holidays are over but I will think on this when I do have a few free minutes!

Hi Bruce

Just thought I'd up date you on "our Connie"!

Have received Constance Archer Fox's death cert - Keighley 1987, it's not my Constance unfortunately. This ladies maiden name was Peel.

Have checked 1911 census and have found Constance Peel living with other Peel's non of their first names are remotely similar to my Constance's parents or siblings.

Have also checked Free BMD and have found Constance Peel their in the corresponding dates to the death cert sooooo ....................... it's back to the drawing board unfortunately. Goodness knows where she's hiding.

Hope your keeping well - the snows nearly gone - phew! lol

I'd go for the death cetificate, problem is it might not tell you anything!

Bruce am I being told off? lol

I will order the Constance Fox death in Keighley in 1987 as soon as I have finished "talking to you" - I got side tracked too!!

The Constance Ellis birth in Q2 Leeds 1904 - do you think that it's worth me ordering that too and just putting Annie as mother and leaving father blank? Or just ordering the death cert at this time?

Constance Nora Ellis - um, geographically interesting. Hunslet is a part of Leeds and one of the Census' shows the Archer's as previously living in Brightside which is part of Sheffield - bit spooky as you says her death is accounted for!

Bye for now and thanks for keeping me focused on the matter in hand - lol

I know - I was thinking when I looked yesterday that we've lost sight of the grail here (or at least I have a little, lol).

And the fact is we still don't know whether Constance was Annie's daughter!!

But hmm, you have never got the death certificate for that Constance Fox I proposed, have you?

From page 1:

Have you considered this death, which is in the same district as where your father was born?

Name: Constance Fox
Birth Date: 24 Apr 1904
Death Registration Month/Year: Feb 1987
Age at death (estimated): 82
Registration district: Keighley
Inferred County: Yorkshire
Volume: 4
Page: 722


For Constance born in Leeds in Q2 1904, I don't see this one in the 1911 or a death before 1911

Name: Constance Ellis
Year of Registration: 1904
Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
District: Leeds (1837-1929)
County: Yorkshire - West Riding
Volume: 9b
Page: 525


There is a Constance Nora Ellis in Hunslet in 1911 whose birth is accounted for and a Connie Ellis death in Sheffield in 1907 whose birth is accounted for.

Hi Vivenne

Poor Bruce he's not even on line to defend himself!!! ..............ha ha!

Your both doing alot better than me with these Unsworths ...... I've only being looking for 3 years for Annie's daughter Constance and she's still hiding, I was sooooooo depending on the 1911 Census being released and was utterly convinced she's be on it but no, nor her parents and no birth either - hope my dad lives to be 181 then I might have found some answers for him by then - heres hoping!!!!

Ha ha.
I may be a wonderperson,not so sure about Bruce.!
I will have to give that some thought.

Oh dear,oh dear,I cant tell you what Ive thought,or I may get reported.....

Thanks Bruce
You and Vivienne are wonderpersons! Will go in and have a look shortly - have got to just nip out in the dreaded snow for a short while..................yep we've had more of the stuff lol

Find this marriage at FreeBMD, you know FreeBMD

http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/cgi/search.pl

Marriages Jun 1869 (>99%)
Coates Hannah Hunslet 9b 345
Ingleson John Hunslet 9b 345 **

Search for John Ingleson married Hannah Coates. Beside his name is an envelope. Click on it and probably another page or tab will open and you can read the postem.


Caroline Unsworth was apparently a child of William Unsworth and Jane Coates who was the sister of Hannah Coates Ingleson, before the Unsworth Coates marriage. I gave you the birth record up above but oops I left of the registration details

Births Dec 1877
COATES Caroline Unsworth Leeds 9b 542


drat, I forgot this part

Marriages Dec 1879 (>99%)
>> Coates Jane Leeds 9b 575
Iveson Emma Leeds 9b 575
Reynolds Allan Leeds 9b 575
>> Unsworth William Leeds 9b 575

Hi Bruce and Vivienne

Blimey you have really been busy whilst I've been off line - thank you both so very very much!

Am I being really thick but where has Caroline Unsworth Coates sprung from please and where should I look to see the postem on John Ingleson?

Thankyooooooooooou!!!!

Anyhow here are Carrie and "Claris" from the 1881, in 1891, nieces in this household

John Ingleson 45
Hannah Ingleson 44
Sarah Ann Ingleson 21
Ann Elizabeth Ingleson 19
Jennie Ingleson 5
Clarice Unsworth 8
Carrie Unsworth 13
Civil parish: Hunslet

Marriages Jun 1869 (>99%)
Coates Hannah Hunslet 9b 345 <<
Ingleson John Hunslet 9b 345 **
LEADLEY Mary Jane Hunslet 9b 345
Wood Thomas Hunslet 9b 345

I guess we didn't do this before? There is a postem next to John Ingleson with an email address for someone with more info on the family. This is sounding familar ...

Births Dec 1877
COATES Caroline Unsworth

Here's the household in 1901 (Samuel was in Leeds on his own)

Eliza A Garrity 37
Florence Garrity 13
John Garrity 8
Emma Garrity 3
Civil parish: Warrington

and no, it seems that is not our Samuel

Name: Samuel Archer
Age: 36
Estimated birth year: abt 1865
Relation: Head
Gender: Male
Where born: Bilston, Staffordshire, England
Civil parish: Warrington

occupation: wire drawer, living with numerous siblings.

So, I have not found our Samuel in 1911. I was looking at the wrong one in 1901 all the time and made a big stupid circle.

Somebody remind me where our Samuel was in 1901 and where he was born?

Got him 1891

Name: Samuel Archer
Age: 26
Estimated birth year: abt 1865
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Annie
Gender: Male
Where born: Leeds, Yorkshire, England
Civil parish: Brightside Bierlow

The amount of time he says he is married fits with Annies "Seperated" on 1901.

But..

Marriages Jun 1902 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

>>>>>>>Archer Samuel Warrington 8c 322
Cooper Harriet Elizabeth Warrington 8c 322
>>>>>>>>Garrity Eliza Ann Warrington 8c 322
Lloyd William Warrington 8c 322


Divorce??I doubt it,or a different Sam

Got it! I was looking back there to see what we know about those Unsworths in 1881 and saw the 1911, ta much, you think it's him?

Oh look there's a marriage

Marriages Jun 1902 (>99%)
Archer Samuel Warrington 8c 322 <<
Cooper Harriet Elizabeth Warrington 8c 322
Garrity Eliza Ann Warrington 8c 322 <<
Lloyd William Warrington 8c 322

Bottom of page 3

Re Sarah A and Jane in 1881, she is 18 so hardly the daughter of someone who is 28.

But - she could be Jane's stepdaughter, if Jane married her father.

Here you are SIR !

Address:
121 Marsh House Lane Warrington

ARCHER, Samuel Head Married M 46 1865 Wiredrawer Bilston
ARCHER Wife F 47 1864 Warrington
GARITTY, Florrie Stepdaughter Single F 23 1888 Warrington
GARITTY, John Stepson Single M 17 1894 Warrington
GARITTY, Louisa Stepdaughter Single F 18 1893 Warrington
GARITTY, Emma Stepdaughter F 13 1898 Warrington


Says married 10 yrs,8 kids 5 living.

Looks like he has just purt MRS in place of first name for wife.
And he really has made a mess of the form !
Want it?

for what it's worth I have found Samuel Archer in 1911, checked back at his place of birth in 1901, Bilston, and used that to search, so it seems to be him anyway

ARCHER SAMUEL M 1865 46 Warrington Lancashire

Too many Archers living with Samuel Archers in Warrington for me to sort them out easily. Viviennnnnnnne.

Have found 1881 census with a Sarah A Unsworth, this could possibly be Annie's sister but there is no way Jane Unsworth could be her mum - she would have been 10yrs at the time.

RG11/4485 86 pg13 1881 Census

9 Clark St, Hunslet, Leeds

Jane Unsworth Head Marr 28yr Draughtsmans Wife b Pudsey, Yorks
Sarah A Unsworth dau Un 18yr Wool Weaver b Lancs Manchester
Carry Unsworth dau 3 yr Scholar b Yorkshire Leeds
Claris Amelian Unsworth dau 10 mth b Hunslet Leeds

Annie Unsworth Archer Clark's sister:

Sarah Alice Unsworth born Manchester Q2 1863 according to Free BMD
(This would tie in with 1871 & 1881 Census')

Have found a marriage of a Jane Coates to a William Unsworth Q4 1879 in Leeds.

This would fall in with Jane's child Carry being born just!

If this is Annie's sister Sarah have you any idea about what could have been going on? lol

Will be back on line tomorrow, things on later.

Bye for now

I'm wondering whether Clara was the daughter of an unmarried sister of Annie who gave her grandfather's details for her father when she married.

I cannot find the Hannah and William Unsworth household in 1881 to save my life. Annie is a servant in Leeds, but the rest, ??

Infants Joseph and Daniel in the 1871 died in 1871 and 1873. Ah, and it seems William died aged 4 in 1873 as well, same quarter as Daniel. But there were no adult Unsworth deaths in Leeds 1871-1891.