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Hi Maureen,

Thankyou very much.

Have you any idea of their outward and inward journeys please?

I think its clear now that I have 2 Robert Prouds.

One married Betty Simpson Clarke b 1832 d1890 Camberwell and was a domestic boarder 0n 1881 census.

The other Robert Proud b1834 had a wife on 1881 census, called Sarah Jane with children ranging from from 2 yrs to 8yrs old.

Any ideas please.

SylviaG

Just my opinion,but they look like the same Robert to me. Maybe the reason we can't find a marriage to Sarah is that he was already married to Betty!

Sorry,I don't see them on any passenger lists-a little early.

Maureen

Thankyou Maureen,

You may be right about that. No marriage. Maybe she just called herself Mrs Proud, she wouldn't be the first would she.

As Betty died aged 59 I am going to look to see if there is a late marriage for Robert and Sarah.

Cannot find Emily anywhere after 1871.
Will look to see if she used her mothers maiden name.
She is not with Robert and Sarah.

Thanks again, I need to learn to look outside the box sometimes.

Regards SylviaG

Update,

I DO have 2 X Robert Proud.

Robert Morrell Proud married Sarah Ann Forrest March 1852 Lewisham London. 1891 census have 5 children.

Robert Proud Married Betty Simpson Clark June 1854 City of London.
Had 1 child Emily Born America but seem to have split up when they returned to England.

Have found Betty as a boarder on 1881 ( b 1832 ) and she died aged 59 in 1890.
Trying to trace Emily and her father b c1832 Cumberland. Living Camberwell in 1871.

Feel like i am stuck in mud at the moment.

Please help if you can
Will really appreciate any contribution


Thankyou SylviaG

Name: Robert Andrew Prond (sic)
Age: 23
Estimated birth year: abt 1874
Spouse Name: Mary Ann Howe
Spouse Age: 23
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 29 Aug 1897
Parish: St Mark, Peckham
County: Middlesex
Borough: Southwark
Father Name: Robert Canon Prond
Spouse Father Name: Henry George Howe
One of the witnesses was Edith Proud.

Sister Mary Ellen's marriage:
Name: Mary Ellen Proud
Age: 20
Estimated birth year: abt 1876
Spouse Name: John Henry Goddard
Spouse Age: 22
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 20 Sep 1896
Parish: St Mark, Peckham
County: Middlesex
Borough: Southwark
Father Name: Robert Carron Proud
Spouse Father Name: John Henry Goddard
Witnesses were Robert Andrew Proud and Mary Ann Howe.

I wondered where the middle name for their father was coming from and noticed this:
1841 Ancestry
Name: Robert Proud
Age: 9
Estimated birth year: abt 1832
Gender: Male
Where born: Cumberland, England
Civil parish: Edenhall
Hundred: Leath
County/Island: Cumberland
Country: England
Registration district: Penrith
Sub-registration district: Penrith
Household Members:
Name Age
Ann Proud 30
Robert Proud 9
Mary Proud 7
Thamer Proud 5
Source Citation: Class: HO107; Piece 172; Book: 12; Civil Parish: Edenhall; County: Cumberland; Enumeration District: 10; Folio: 5; Page: 4; Line: 5; GSU roll: 241283.

On Robert's marriage certificate to Betty Simpson,he states his father as John Proud.
From the IGI

JOHN PROUD

Marriages:
Spouse: ANN CANNON
Family
Marriage:
12 NOV 1831 Edenhall, Cumberland, England
.......


ROBERT PROUD

Christening:
04 MAR 1832 Edenhall, Cumberland, England
Father: JOHN PROUD
Family
Mother: ANN

Makes sense to me.

Here's the full 1911

1911 census transcription details for: 36 Chesterfield Grove East Dulwich S E

National Archive Reference:

RG14PN2471 RG78PN83 RD27 SD2 ED12 SN279

Reg. District: Camberwell Sub District: Camberwell South
Parish: Camberwell Enum. District: 12
Address: 36 Chesterfield Grove East Dulwich S E
County: London

PROUD, Robert A Head Married M 38 1873 Clerk Drapery Warehouse London Bermondsey
PROUD, Mary Wife Married
13 years F 38 1873 London Brixton
PROUD, Henry Son M 12 1899 School London Peckham
PROUD, Gladys Daughter F 4 1907 London Dulwich
PROUD, Herbert Son M 0 (12 DAYS) 1911 London Dulwich

You really should get at least one or two certificates to prove you've got the right line to start with,though.

Maureen

Hi Maureen,

Thankyou again for your help.

Was just going to bed when I thought I had better have another look in.

Please can you tell me which sites you use to get your information?

I have ancestry membership, but am new with it and still trying to find my way around.

My eyes are aching as I have been at this nearly all day, so I will have to re-read and digest in the morning.

Will post any new info tomorrow is you wouldn't mind having a look please.

Ps sent for 3 x certs today. Expected 15th feb.

Thankyou again and good night. will try and catch you tomorrow.

SylviaG

Hi SylviaG-Glad to hear some certs are on their way!! Good for you.
I use a combination of Ancestry (worldwide) and FMPast for my research,plus all the usual free sites (BMD,IGI,etc.)
Talk to you tomorrow.

Maureen

Hi, Have done a lot of reading today and knew that something did not add up.

1891 census.
Robt Proud b abt 1833
Wife, Sarah Ann Proud age 48. ( 1843) ??

We have a marriage for robert Proud to Sarah Ann Forrest 1852

If the census is correct then Sarah would have been 9 yrs old at time of marriage !

I have found her born 1834.

Have sent for marriage certs for Robert and Betty Simpson Clark,
and Robert and Sarah Ann Forrest.

Any idea what happened to Emily Proud, b 1858 North America British Subject. I cannot find her after 1871.

Thankyou for all help.

Will be off line for a few hours but will check in again later.

Thankyou. SylviaG

The thing is,Sylvia,I don't think that Robert Proud/Sarah Forrest figure into your tree at all.
It would be a good idea to get Robert Andrew's birth cert to see who it lists his mother as.

Maureen

Sylvia

I did state in my post that that marriage was too early for it to be them
_________________________

JulieInTheBuff 10th February 2010 11:04 Request review
Hi Sylvia

I tried to find a marriage for Robert & Sarah yesterday because i want to see if her maiden name was Gray so i could tie in Margaret thats on the 1911
""""But could only see this one but it's too early....I think a B/C will be needed for Sarah's maiden name"""""

Marriages Mar 1852 (>99%)
Everington Thomas Lewisham 1d 644
Forrest Sarah Ann Lewisham 1d 644
Proud Robert Morrell Lewisham 1d 644
Rowland Eliza Lewisham 1d 644

Julie

Edit | Delete | Add

Hi,

Sorry Julie for not taking in the info you gave me . There has been so much help here that I am a little bit slow at taking it all in, causing myself and you to waste a lot of effort. Sorry.

Yes Maureen, will order that cert on line today.

Thankyou again to both of you for your help.
Will let you know when certs arrive and update this thread.


Thankyou

SylviaG

Hi Sylvia

No you didn't cause me to waste my effort, please don't think that..it's just a shame that you have wasted your money getting that cert.
I know what its like getting all this info you get so excited you don't know if you're coming or going lol

Take Care Julie x

Morning Julie
Well you never know, might not have wasted money if he turns out to be a cousin or someone.
I am sure he is related somewhere along the way because of the Area born, and He may have been given the middlw name of Morrell because of that.

Will let you know when certs arrive.

Have a good weekend

SylviaG

Hi all,
Have been trying to search for myself but have got stuck AGAIN.

Sent for certs, one they refunded on as was incorrect , That was Robert Proud marriage to Sarah Ann Forrest but I do have ROBERT PROUD to BETTY SIMPSON CLARK.
Marriage, 30th April 1854 both of full age, so thats no help, Robert was a railway clerk and his father is JOHN PROUD , deceased, a joiner.
Betty (spinster) no occupation, father ROBERT CLARK , deceased, Courior.
I am sure this is the Robert Proud who went to America and they had a daughter Emily b 1858. She is on 1871 census with father, (no mother on census.) living 92 Albany Road , Camberwell, . cannot find either of them after 1871. Any ideas please.
Still waiting for marriage certs of Henry Robert Andrew Proud to Elizabeth Taylor 1920 Southwark and Robert Andrew Proud to Mary Ann Howe 1897 Camberwell.

Thanks for all help.

SylviaG

Nudge for the afternoon helpers please......

nudged for the evening helpers please.......

Any chance this is your Robert b 1832 in Cumbria in 1901?

Name: Robert Proud
Age: 69
Estimated birth year: abt 1832
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Sarah Ann
Gender: Male
Where born: Penrith, Cumberland, England

Civil parish: Camberwell
Ecclesiastical parish: St Giles
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status:

View image

Registration district: Camberwell
Sub-registration district: Camberwell
ED, institution, or vessel: 23
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 13
Household Members:
Name Age
Robert Proud 69 Living on old means
Sarah Ann Proud 51b Kent Woolwich
Herbert Chu Proud 20
William Phillips 21 Visitor

1891

Name: Robt Proud
Age: 58
Estimated birth year: abt 1833
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Sarah Ann
Gender: Male
Where born: Cumberland, England

Civil parish: Camberwell
Ecclesiastical parish: St Andrew
Town: Peckham
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status:

View image

Registration district: Camberwell
Sub-registration district: Peckham
ED, institution, or vessel: 34
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
Robt Proud 58
Sarah Ann Proud 48
Robt A Proud 18
Tamar Ann Proud 17
Mary E Proud 15
Edith Proud 11
Herbert J Proud 9


Possible 1881

Name: Robert Proud
Age: 47
Estimated birth year: abt 1834
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Sarah
Gender: Male
Where born: Edenhall, Cumberland, England

Civil parish: Camberwell
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street Address: 37 Peckham Pk Rd
Condition as to marriage: Married
Education:

Employment status:

View image
Occupation: Clerk (Confectioners)

Registration district: Camberwell
Sub-registration district: Peckham
ED, institution, or vessel: 49
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
Robert Proud 47
Sarah Proud 40
Robert Proud 8
Tamar Proud 7
Mary Proud 5
Edith Proud 2
Emma Dam 30 Boarder
Hannah Clark 20 Boarder
Jane Day 19 Boarder

Thankyou K,

As you have probably realised there are a lot of Robert Prouds.
I have him on 1871 census b c1832 Edenhall Cumbria.,living Camberwell with daughter Emily b 1858 North America british subject.
I have his marriage cert to Betty Simpson Clark. I know they both went to America and returned. Betty was born Penrith 1831 and died aged 59 1890 camberwell. I know she was in lodgings proir to that without husband and daughter. Maybe he remarried?

Sylvia,
Just hang in there until all the certs arrive!!
And did you order Robert Andrew's birth cert to check on Sarah's maiden name?

Maureen

Evening Maureen,

I have ordered so many certs as I am on the maternal line as well, but have overlooked that one.
Doing it now !

Thankyou for pointing that out again.

Regards SylviaG