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Morning Julie
Well you never know, might not have wasted money if he turns out to be a cousin or someone.
I am sure he is related somewhere along the way because of the Area born, and He may have been given the middlw name of Morrell because of that.

Will let you know when certs arrive.

Have a good weekend

SylviaG

Hi Sylvia

No you didn't cause me to waste my effort, please don't think that..it's just a shame that you have wasted your money getting that cert.
I know what its like getting all this info you get so excited you don't know if you're coming or going lol

Take Care Julie x

Hi,

Sorry Julie for not taking in the info you gave me . There has been so much help here that I am a little bit slow at taking it all in, causing myself and you to waste a lot of effort. Sorry.

Yes Maureen, will order that cert on line today.

Thankyou again to both of you for your help.
Will let you know when certs arrive and update this thread.


Thankyou

SylviaG

Sylvia

I did state in my post that that marriage was too early for it to be them
_________________________

JulieInTheBuff 10th February 2010 11:04 Request review
Hi Sylvia

I tried to find a marriage for Robert & Sarah yesterday because i want to see if her maiden name was Gray so i could tie in Margaret thats on the 1911
""""But could only see this one but it's too early....I think a B/C will be needed for Sarah's maiden name"""""

Marriages Mar 1852 (>99%)
Everington Thomas Lewisham 1d 644
Forrest Sarah Ann Lewisham 1d 644
Proud Robert Morrell Lewisham 1d 644
Rowland Eliza Lewisham 1d 644

Julie

Edit | Delete | Add

The thing is,Sylvia,I don't think that Robert Proud/Sarah Forrest figure into your tree at all.
It would be a good idea to get Robert Andrew's birth cert to see who it lists his mother as.

Maureen

Hi, Have done a lot of reading today and knew that something did not add up.

1891 census.
Robt Proud b abt 1833
Wife, Sarah Ann Proud age 48. ( 1843) ??

We have a marriage for robert Proud to Sarah Ann Forrest 1852

If the census is correct then Sarah would have been 9 yrs old at time of marriage !

I have found her born 1834.

Have sent for marriage certs for Robert and Betty Simpson Clark,
and Robert and Sarah Ann Forrest.

Any idea what happened to Emily Proud, b 1858 North America British Subject. I cannot find her after 1871.

Thankyou for all help.

Will be off line for a few hours but will check in again later.

Thankyou. SylviaG

Hi SylviaG-Glad to hear some certs are on their way!! Good for you.
I use a combination of Ancestry (worldwide) and FMPast for my research,plus all the usual free sites (BMD,IGI,etc.)
Talk to you tomorrow.

Maureen

Hi Maureen,

Thankyou again for your help.

Was just going to bed when I thought I had better have another look in.

Please can you tell me which sites you use to get your information?

I have ancestry membership, but am new with it and still trying to find my way around.

My eyes are aching as I have been at this nearly all day, so I will have to re-read and digest in the morning.

Will post any new info tomorrow is you wouldn't mind having a look please.

Ps sent for 3 x certs today. Expected 15th feb.

Thankyou again and good night. will try and catch you tomorrow.

SylviaG

Name: Robert Andrew Prond (sic)
Age: 23
Estimated birth year: abt 1874
Spouse Name: Mary Ann Howe
Spouse Age: 23
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 29 Aug 1897
Parish: St Mark, Peckham
County: Middlesex
Borough: Southwark
Father Name: Robert Canon Prond
Spouse Father Name: Henry George Howe
One of the witnesses was Edith Proud.

Sister Mary Ellen's marriage:
Name: Mary Ellen Proud
Age: 20
Estimated birth year: abt 1876
Spouse Name: John Henry Goddard
Spouse Age: 22
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 20 Sep 1896
Parish: St Mark, Peckham
County: Middlesex
Borough: Southwark
Father Name: Robert Carron Proud
Spouse Father Name: John Henry Goddard
Witnesses were Robert Andrew Proud and Mary Ann Howe.

I wondered where the middle name for their father was coming from and noticed this:
1841 Ancestry
Name: Robert Proud
Age: 9
Estimated birth year: abt 1832
Gender: Male
Where born: Cumberland, England
Civil parish: Edenhall
Hundred: Leath
County/Island: Cumberland
Country: England
Registration district: Penrith
Sub-registration district: Penrith
Household Members:
Name Age
Ann Proud 30
Robert Proud 9
Mary Proud 7
Thamer Proud 5
Source Citation: Class: HO107; Piece 172; Book: 12; Civil Parish: Edenhall; County: Cumberland; Enumeration District: 10; Folio: 5; Page: 4; Line: 5; GSU roll: 241283.

On Robert's marriage certificate to Betty Simpson,he states his father as John Proud.
From the IGI

JOHN PROUD

Marriages:
Spouse: ANN CANNON
Family
Marriage:
12 NOV 1831 Edenhall, Cumberland, England
.......


ROBERT PROUD

Christening:
04 MAR 1832 Edenhall, Cumberland, England
Father: JOHN PROUD
Family
Mother: ANN

Makes sense to me.

Here's the full 1911

1911 census transcription details for: 36 Chesterfield Grove East Dulwich S E

National Archive Reference:

RG14PN2471 RG78PN83 RD27 SD2 ED12 SN279

Reg. District: Camberwell Sub District: Camberwell South
Parish: Camberwell Enum. District: 12
Address: 36 Chesterfield Grove East Dulwich S E
County: London

PROUD, Robert A Head Married M 38 1873 Clerk Drapery Warehouse London Bermondsey
PROUD, Mary Wife Married
13 years F 38 1873 London Brixton
PROUD, Henry Son M 12 1899 School London Peckham
PROUD, Gladys Daughter F 4 1907 London Dulwich
PROUD, Herbert Son M 0 (12 DAYS) 1911 London Dulwich

You really should get at least one or two certificates to prove you've got the right line to start with,though.

Maureen

Update,

I DO have 2 X Robert Proud.

Robert Morrell Proud married Sarah Ann Forrest March 1852 Lewisham London. 1891 census have 5 children.

Robert Proud Married Betty Simpson Clark June 1854 City of London.
Had 1 child Emily Born America but seem to have split up when they returned to England.

Have found Betty as a boarder on 1881 ( b 1832 ) and she died aged 59 in 1890.
Trying to trace Emily and her father b c1832 Cumberland. Living Camberwell in 1871.

Feel like i am stuck in mud at the moment.

Please help if you can
Will really appreciate any contribution


Thankyou SylviaG

Thankyou Maureen,

You may be right about that. No marriage. Maybe she just called herself Mrs Proud, she wouldn't be the first would she.

As Betty died aged 59 I am going to look to see if there is a late marriage for Robert and Sarah.

Cannot find Emily anywhere after 1871.
Will look to see if she used her mothers maiden name.
She is not with Robert and Sarah.

Thanks again, I need to learn to look outside the box sometimes.

Regards SylviaG

Just my opinion,but they look like the same Robert to me. Maybe the reason we can't find a marriage to Sarah is that he was already married to Betty!

Sorry,I don't see them on any passenger lists-a little early.

Maureen

Hi Maureen,

Thankyou very much.

Have you any idea of their outward and inward journeys please?

I think its clear now that I have 2 Robert Prouds.

One married Betty Simpson Clarke b 1832 d1890 Camberwell and was a domestic boarder 0n 1881 census.

The other Robert Proud b1834 had a wife on 1881 census, called Sarah Jane with children ranging from from 2 yrs to 8yrs old.

Any ideas please.

SylviaG

Name: Betty Simpson Clark
Age: Full Age
Estimated birth year: abt 1854
Spouse Name: Robert Proud Occ: Railway Clerk
Spouse Age: Full Age
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 30 Apr 1854
Parish: St Helen Bishopgate
County: London
Borough: City of London
Father Name: Robert Clark Occ: Carrier deceased
Spouse Father Name: John Proud Occ:Joiner deceased

Source Citation: Guildhall, St Helen Bishopgate, Register of marriages, 1837 - 1870, P69/HEL/A/01/Ms 6834/5

Maureen

1860 United States Federal Census about Robert Proud
Name: Robert Proud
Age in 1860: 28
Birth Year: abt 1832
Birthplace: England
Home in 1860: Hartford District 3, Hartford, Connecticut
Gender: Male
Post Office: Hartford
Value of real estate: View image
Household Members:
Name Age
Robert Proud 28 born England Occ:Book?keeper
Betty S? Proud 28 born England
Emily Proud 1 born Connecticut

Source Citation: Year: 1860; Census Place: Hartford District 3, Hartford, Connecticut; Roll M653_78; Page: 178; Image: 72; Family History Library Film: 803078.

Maureen

Here we go again.

I have found Robert Proud on1871 census with a Daughter EMILY age 13 scholar born 1858 NORTH AMERICA BRITISH SUBJECT.

As I cannot find Robert on 1861 census, do you think its possible that he went to North America.
Bearing in mind we can find no marriage for him to his wife Sarah Ann, could he have married In America and she followed him later.

She is not on 1871 census but he is listed as married.

Also, can find no trace of daughter Emily after 1871.

The plot thickens.

Any help appreciated, Thankyou

Sylvia

Its puzzling isn't it.

Well, at least Lewisham is in the right area. Thankyou for that.

I have been at it since 7am and have only added to the problem with Emily popping up now.

I have changed my thread title to reflect that it's no longer a 1911 look up.
Thankyou for you time Julie.

SylviaG

Hi Sylvia

I tried to find a marriage for Robert & Sarah yesterday because i want to see if her maiden name was Gray so i could tie in Margaret thats on the 1911
But could only see this one but it's too early....I think a B/C will be needed for Sarah's maiden name

Marriages Mar 1852 (>99%)
Everington Thomas Lewisham 1d 644
Forrest Sarah Ann Lewisham 1d 644
Proud Robert Morrell Lewisham 1d 644
Rowland Eliza Lewisham 1d 644

Julie

Morning,

Thought as this is the same family I'd be better to keep it on the same thread. Hopr thats the correct thing to do.

Robert Proud b c 1832 Edenhall Cumberland

1871 census living Camberwell with daughter Emily Proud b1858 North America British Subject.
Would like to find more info on Emily. I have no details of her mother.

1881 census
Robert Proud Living peckham now married to SARAH b woolwich c1841. No Emily, but I have their 4 Children, Robert 8, Tamar 7, Mary 5 and Edith 2.

I cannot find a marriage for Robert and Sarah( sorry no maiden name yet)

ON 1891 Sarah is Sarah Ann.
All children born Peckam or Camberwell.

I cannot find Robert prior to 1871.

Did he go to America?

All help greatly appreciated.

Thankyou.

Sylvia G

Hi,

Well done you .

You have achieved in 1 evening what I couldn't in a day.

I really do appreciate all the help you have given me.

Hopefully I can now continue to work backwards.

Thanks again I have a lot to learn.

SylviaG