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No births or Marriage in Scotland for Alfreda / Freda Emily Burgess.

well lets hope that when the marriage cert gets to you that we get some
answers or clues that will help.

for the 3 Trousdale women to seem to have vanished is a bit odd in its self ---

some thing may turn up yet

Mavis

You're much better at this than me! Didn't consider the possibility that he was avoiding being called up to service.

I can see the Trousdale link but I'm not sure why she would have changed her name or why she would have chosen Burgess.

Was Francis evading being called up for WW1 ??

some are shipping ports - Newhaven's not far from me - easy way to move around then.

Francis was a Painter - Paperhanger 1911

I shall have a look at Scotland for Freda but I would put a large bet on Freda being
Trousdale

can some one tell us do scottish birth certs have more details other than parents and their marriage date -- would there be any thing about their parents ??

Mavis

Just a thought but could Freda Emily Burgess come from there and that's why I can't find a record of her in England?

Brilliant.. I've been glued to the computer all day.. gets very addictive! No idea what they must have been doing in Fife or Newhaven as my dad thought they stayed in and around Yorkshire.

found the other one

Elsie Freda Abson 1919 Burntisland / Fife Scotland

died Dec Q 1930 Hull -- there is a photo of the grave -- you can see it through
Ancestry.

Mavis

Rullyman! I think it means one would drive a horse drawn lorry.

I've been looking for the Goole Poor Law Institution but it said on one site that it wasn't named this until 1930.

Yes I think my grandad must have been the 10 year old and Dorothy the baby.

Back to the drawing board

Dorothy is the 6 mth old

would Ralph be the 10y old

may be one before Francis or after

If the records still exist of Goole Poor Law Institution well worth a look at.

are you sure of Ralph's fathers occupation -- what is a Gully man ??
unless its to do with cleaning drains and gutters of th road

Mavis

Wow.. Thank you Mavis.. Have we missed a child? It says in the article 6 children but I only have 5 as Freda Mary was born in 1926 and two of the boys died before 1925?

found this " Daily Mail thursday May 28th 1925 "


“... DESERTED WITH SIX CHILDREN. LEFT TO POOR LAW. Police Court on Wednesday, Francis M. Abson was charged with deserting his wife and six children. .Mrs Freda E Abson

I have printed a copy of the Page

Francis was charged with deserting his wife and 6 children -- Freda said she and the family were now inmates of the Goole Poor Law inst. -- married 10y - 6 children - eldest 10y youngest 6 mth
A fortnight earlier she had issued summons against him but withdrew it as he offered to look after them if they went to Leeds to him.
On sat. 16th May 1925 she took her children to him - he had prepared no home for them, but he gave her £1 and she stayed with friends at Leeds. On the Sunday he gave her another £1 but asked for 15 shillings back - she gave him 1 shilling as being in drink, he created a disturbance in the street.
She had to come back to Goole. Most of the time her husband was under the influence of drink. She estimated he earned about £4- 15sh per week with overtime.
The defendant did not appear and the bench made an order £2 against him.

not a happy life

Mavis

I have death index record for a Frank Henry Abson died July 1987 in Goole and born 30th June 1918. However it was 3 years ago when I researched this.

I met Geoffrey at my grandfather's funeral. I think he was living in Leicester. He has since died. If it is the Geoffrey you found in 1923, it sounds like Freda changed her name when the mood pleased her!

Located a Francis Abson born 1918 Burntisland / Fife Scotland ????
not one in England

A Geoffrey Abson mth Jackson born Leeds Sep Q 1923 ????

Looking into Arthur Jackson now

Mavis

Thank you Mavis.. I do appreciate your help..
I have:
Frank H Abson 1918 (Although I now can't find a birth record) ~ My grandfather talked about Frank, saying they were put in a home together because his mum couldn't afford to look after them.
Wasn't sure about Joseph as he was born in Newhaven, while all the others were born in Yorkshire. However I have now added him to my tree.
John Alfred Abson
Donald Abson
Geoffrey Abson 1923
Dorothy S Abson
and finally Freda Mary Abson who we have spoken to but hasn't been able to shed any light either.
Freda Emily Burgess seems almost as mysterious as Arthur Jackson who I have nothing on at all, apart from that he was a rullyman, he lived in Egton Street in 1914 and he died shortly after my grandad was born. Very frustrating!

I have had another go -- looking for Margarets [1868] death --no can find ??

presume she was still alive 1917 in 163 Albert Road Middlesborough -- the address given on the son Abraham Herbert R Trousdale death Aug 1917

did see a marriage 1919 in Toxeth Park for a Margaret ??

checked the children born to Abson / Burgess

1st no one seems to have Joseph E Abson born Newhaven Sep Q 1916
died Goole 1917
2nd John Alfred Abson Mar Q 1921 - Alfred from his death
3rd Donald Abson 1922- 1922
4th Dorothy S Abson 1924 -
5th Freda M Abson 1926 - could she be a Margaret -- I believe she may still live in Goole -- Elect roll. under married name

yes Christina I 've not found a Burgess connection - may be a name taken at random.

Mavis

Yes I will do.. just couldn't understand why I could find record of her marriage but no census or birth certificate information

Mavis, I spent quite some time this morning looking at your Trousdale family as well.

I don't know :-S I can't see any reason to dismiss them, and I certainly can't come up with a better theory. It's just that I don't see where the name Burgess fits in.

As has been said by five other people already - Zoe, you really do need to order the certificate for Freda's "second" marriage.

thank you for your imput Dea

Mavis

Well Mavis,

I have been looking at this since early this morning and I can find absolutely nothing to either prove or disprove your theory :-( :-(

It really does seem to fit well though.

I will take another look later today.

Dea x

you are able as far as I know to change your name as long as you are not changing it to deceive people.

Your Freda may well have invented a husband for respectability - not wishing to be a single mother perhaps. I have come across this sort of thing before -- the lady taking the name of the husband where the baby had been born -- for registration then it was baptised with a single mother.

I wonder if worth while to see if Ralph was baptised.

You really should get the Marriage cert. to the fact of who she may have put as her father -- also the witnesses can be of help to.

Although Freda/Alfreda Trousdale may not have remembered her father as she was very young when he died --if she happens to be your Freda. but she does fit rather well.

can you alter your thread heading from Arthur Jackson or add to it about Freda/Alfreda so that I can have some other input to my idea-- good or bad
see If any one can find Ida Mary or Alfreda Emily

Mavis

Thank you Mavis for taking the time to look for me.
On her son's (Ralph Jackson) birth certificate she wrote Freda Jackson, formerly Burgess and signed F Jackson. Would she have been able to do this if she wasn't married to Arthur?