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Hi Christine,yes they did I ordered a copy of there married,they married on the 1st July 1901 at St Michaels church in Willesden,he married a Beatrice Hope,so if you think finding the Brown and Shakespeare family was hard to find, well the Hope family is even harder,Ada was born in 1900.

Hi Terry,

As you said your grandmother Ada was born out of wedlock and Charles was still single in 1901, did he eventually marry Ada's mother for you to be able to find the correct Charles in 1901?

Do you have Ada in 1901 and 1911?

Christine

Hi Maureen,I have Adas birth cert with Charles on it

Hi Terry (and Christine!!!),
I think my question was (working backwards from Ada)-how did you manage to pinpoint that particular Charles as being her father??

Best,
Maureen

sorry Maureen for not answering this, I just had a nudge from Christine...the Charles Brown in question was my nan Ada Browns father,my great grandad

Just curious,Terry-of all the Charles Brown(s) why pick that one?

Maureen

good morning Maureen,I only put that down about Charles,because it took me for ever to find my nans birth she was born in 1900 but he was still single,she was baptised a year later.

Terry-
What did you mean by:
Terry Yesterday at 21:23
just to add Charles Brown was my great grandad,my nan Ada was born out of wedlock as I found my roots on here


Maureen

Absolutely,Christine!
Plus,there's no sign of a similar James Brown prior to 1881.


Maureenxxx

I also wondered if Edward Shakespeare and James Brown are one and the same as Edward seems to disappear after 1871.

I think I would get the birth cert for Charles Thomas Shakespeare in 1881 especially as you said you are descended from him.

Christine

You're welcome Terry. It's fun,,,although I got off to a rocky start I think I've redeemed myself slightly! grin

People could (and still can,I think) use any name they want as long as it's not for illegal purposes. Not sure I'd choose James Brown as an alias,though!!

Sarah's marriage cert combines both names:
Name: Sarah Jane Shakespeare 12 Church Rd (same address as 1901 census)
Age: 23
Estimated birth year: abt 1872
Spouse Name: Frederick John Shipley
Spouse Age: 25
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 27 Oct 1895
Parish: St Mary, Willesden
County: Middlesex
Borough: Brent
Father Name: James Shakespeare
Spouse Father Name: James Shipley


Going out for a few hours.

Maureen

Edit:
A few more marriages:
Name: George Edward Shakespeare 12 Church Terrace
Age: 21
Estimated birth year: abt 1874
Spouse Name: Ada Stagg
Spouse Age: 20
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 22 Dec 1895
Parish: St Mary, Willesden
County: Middlesex
Borough: Brent
Father Name: James Edward Shakespeare
Spouse Father Name: William Stagg

One of the witnesses was James Brown. (his mark)

Name: William Shakespear
Age: 20
Estimated birth year: abt 1865
Spouse Name: Emma Timbrell
Spouse Age: 21
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 21 Feb 1885
Parish: St Mary, Willesden
County: Middlesex
Borough: Brent
Father Name: James Shakespear
Spouse Father Name: William Timbrell
William is a widower in the 1891 census,so I think this is his re-marriage:

Name: William Shakespeare widower 162 Lever St.
Age: 35
Estimated birth year: abt 1864
Spouse Name: Ellen Margaret Burr
Spouse Age: 47
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 25 Mar 1899
Parish: St Barnabas, Finsbury
County: Middlesex
Borough: Islington
Father Name: James Shakespeare
Spouse Father Name: James Mc Cullam

Name: Agnes Emily Shakespeare
Spouse Name: Frederich Charles Woodcoch(k?)
Spouse Age: 23
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 22 Dec 1906
Parish: St Matthew, Willesden
County: Middlesex
Borough: Brent
Father Name: Edward Shakespeare deceased
Spouse Father Name: Hanson Woodcoch

I just want to thank you all for taking the time and energy to help me try and find my family,I will try and piece it all together now,if anyone feels that they would like to find out anymore I will be so pleased to see more results,again thank you all,Terry

it sure does but how did they get away with it

Marriages Dec 1895 (>99%)

Shakespeare Sarah Jane Hendon 3a 330
Shipley Frederick John Hendon 3a 330

So that seems to confirm that the Browns and Shakespeares were one and the same!!

Maureen

thats fine Flo,seems anything could happen here on this story

just to add Charles Brown was my great grandad,my nan Ada was born out of wedlock as I found my roots on here

that must of been where I got the name Meredith through the nephews name

1901 census transcription details for: 12, Church Road, Willesden

National Archive Reference:
RG number: RG13 Piece: 1213 Folio: 34 Page: 60


Reg. District: Hendon Sub District: Willesden
Parish: Willesden Enum. District: 1
Ecclesiastical District: St Marys City/Municipal Borough:
Address: 12, Church Road, Willesden
County: Middlesex
BROWN, James Head Married M 60 1841 Contractor
Worcestershire
BROWN, Jane Wife Married F 58 1843
Worcestershire
BROWN, Charles Son Single M 20 1881 Labourer General
Brentwood
Essex
BROWN, Agnes Daughter Single F 18 1883
Willesden
BROWN, Frederick Son Single M 14 1887
Willesden
>>>MEREDITH, Henry Nephew Single M 23 1878
Worcestershire
SHIPPLEY, Sarah Daughter Married F 29 1872
Worcestershire
SHIPPLEY, Frederick Son-In-Law Married M 31 1870 General Labourer
Buckinghamshire


Maureen

could they get away with that in them days,thank you Maureen

Oh boy,carrying on from what Christine was doing-ie looking for Shakespeare births that match your Browns:
1891 Ancestry
Name: Agnes E Brown
Age: 7
Estimated birth year: abt 1884
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: James
Mother's Name: Jane
Gender: Female
Where born: Willesden, Middlesex, England
Civil parish: Willesden
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England
Registration district: Hendon
Sub-registration district: Willesden
ED, institution, or vessel: 2a
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
James Brown 48
Jane Brown 46
William Brown 26
Henry Brown 22
Sarah J Brown 18
George E Brown 16
Mary A Brown 13
Charles T Brown 10
Agnes E Brown 7
Frederick A Brown 4
Alice Brown 2
Albert Brown 3
Source Citation: Class: RG12; Piece: 1042; Folio 46; Page 8;

Name: Agnes Emily Shakespeare
Year of Registration: 1883
Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
District: Hendon (1837-1947)
County: Middlesex
Volume: 3a
Page: 175

Name: Frederick Albert Shakespear
Year of Registration: 1886
Quarter of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec
District: Hendon (1837-1947)
County: Middlesex
Volume: 3a
Page: 161

Name: Alice Shakespeare
Year of Registration: 1889
Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
District: Hendon (1837-1947)
County: Middlesex
Volume: 3a
Page: 1[9_]1

Now I'm wondering if Edward Shakespeare and James Brown are the same people or if they just registered the children as Shakespeare?

Maureen