Find Ancestors

James


the fact that father was not noted as "deceased" on GRO records means little


it only means that the vicar did not ask the right question!


If he asked "What is the name of your Father?" ................. That does not often elicit the answer "xxxxxx, but he's dead"

If the vicar did not ask "Is your father alive or dead?", then he will not get the answer.



sylvia

can't see a Probate reference for Amelia







sylvia

PROOF THAT IT WAS ROBERT CLARKE WHO DIED IN 1867


Just had to do it in caps!!!

from ancestry


England & Wales, National Probate Calendar (Index of Wills and Administrations),1861-1941

Name: Robert Clarke Miller
Probate Date: 28 Jan 1869
Death Date: 15 Oct 1867
Death Place: Nottingham, England
Registry: Nottingham


from image:-

The Will with a codicil of Robert Clarke Miller formerly of Castelmaine Australia but late of Worksop in the County of Nottingham, Gentleman, Deceased, who died 15 October 1867 at Worksop aforesaid was proved at Nottingham by the Oaths of Henry Wortley Latham of Worksop aforesaid, Seedsman, and George Baxter of Worksop aforesaid, Druggist, the Executors

Effects under £2,000


you'll have to buy the will to find out who is mentioned in there or how he left his money.





sylvia

Hiya Janey...Ow the bloody hell are ya mate...xx

James.

Your welcome....if i can help with Victoria reference just ask away.

Must go do some gardening...beautiful sunny morning here in Vic.


Cheers. Tony...:>))

Hi Tony,
Thank you I will check out that web site. Time for bed I think its after 0130 here. You have been a tremendous help.

Hi James.

As John Clarke Miller birth was registered in Castlemaine, they have a great Historical society, and may have records relating to your Miller family.

For reference:
http://www.castlemainehistoricalsociety.com/


Cheers. Tony

Hi JaneyCanuck,
Sorry about that. Its after the witching hour and I am supposed to be up by 0900 today. John was in UK in 1911 and James doesn't appear after 1901. There is no reason to dismiss the deaths of Robert and Amelia and the GRO stuff I hold does not mention deceased. We just crossed in the post I think. Strange the 2 of them died so young and in the same year, and I agree about the son in boarding school because of their deaths. Apologies all round.

"I will try and find out my end if Robert Clarke Miller did return to UK. I assume he would have come home for the funeral of his son who died 10 Sep 1898 at West Bridgford, or at least to pay his respects, if he knew about it in time."

James ... is there a reason to dismiss the deaths I posted?

Deaths Dec 1867
Miller Robert Clark 35 Worksop 7b 17

Deaths Mar 1867
Miller Amelia 34 Nottingham 7b 135


The right names, the right place, the right ages ... and an explanation for the son being in a boarding school in the next census.

You're not thinking logically. (I don't think there were Zeppellin trips between the UK and Australia.)

Robert Clark Miler was born in 1831.

The odds of him being alive in Australia in 1911 are pretty slim. The odds of those deaths in Worksop being him and his wife are extremely high, for all the reasons I've noted.


Could you clarify? --

"Elizabeth his wife had 2 sons John Clarke Miller b1886 and James Clarence Miller b 04 Sep 1887. Whereas James married and was living in UK with his own children in 1911, James appears to have vanished of the English map after 1901"

Which one was in the UK in 1911 and which one vanished after 1901? (One was James and one was John but you've called them both James.)

Tony -- I was the one who first suggested "prosperous", referring to the son being in a boarding school in 1871, you didn't notice?

And I wasn't rebutting what either of us said when I said less prosperous than deceased *in 1871*.

Prosperous in Australia in 1860
Deceased in England in 1867

Not at all mutually exclusive, and quite possibly identical.

Not much help here.
Victoria Index to Outward Passengers to Interstate, U.K. and Foreign Ports, 1852-1908

1861 to 1867
MILLER ROBERT 28 NOR WESTER... DEC 1861 Destination: PORT CHALMERS... DEC 1861
MILLER ROBERT 34 WM JACKSON... MAR 1863 Destination: OTAGO... MAR 1863
MILLER ROBERT 25 HYDRA........ FEB 1862 OTAGO... FEB 1862


May also have departed from another State?

Hi Tony,
Thank you for your input. I assume from your missive that Miller was as common as surname as it was over here. I will try and find out my end if Robert Clarke Miller did return to UK. I assume he would have come home for the funeral of his son who died 10 Sep 1898 at West Bridgford, or at least to pay his respects, if he knew about it in time. I know air travel had not happened so it would have been a long boat trip, the first Zeppellins were in 1909. Elizabeth his wife had 2 sons John Clarke Miller b1886 and James Clarence Miller b 04 Sep 1887. Whereas James married and was living in UK with his own children in 1911, James appears to have vanished of the English map after 1901. Possible he could have joined his GF in Australia. Once again thank you for all your help my brick wall has started to crumble.

The newspaper article was 1860.
I only posted it as a " Possible"

Would need to find incoming passenger reference for the family to the U.K somewhere between 1861-2 and 1867

Uh oh:

Deaths Dec 1867
Miller Robert Clark 35 Worksop 7b 17

Deaths Mar 1867
Miller Amelia 34 Nottingham 7b 135

Perhaps not so much prosperous as deceased by 1871 ...

Hi James.

As the town of Castlemaine during the 1860s was a booming Gold mining area, as were many neighbouring towns, its possible ( and i say possible? ) John Clarke Miller's father may have been involved "Shares" in the many Quartz mining reefs in and around Castlemaine.

There is reference to a Robert Miller of "Back Creek" in a Colonial newspaper during 1860 regarding shares in a Quartz Reef...and given that John Clarke Miller birth was registered here.... there is a "Back Creek" in Castlemaine.

So his parents may have been prosperous, and this perhaps is why they could afford to have their son retrurned to the U.K to be educated.( as Janey had found 1871 census )

Newspaper Extract: ( as written )
PROSPECTUS of tho NIGHTINGALE GOLD
MINING and QUARTZ-ORUSHING COM-PANY.
All Nations Roof, Back Creek.
Liabilty Limited t) Amount of Share, undor the
Mining Partneiships Act, 1800.
Capital, £14,000, In 3,603 Shares of £1 Each.
Ten shillings per Bars to bo paid on application, £1
pen share on allotment,.£l per share in two months from the dato of allotment, and no futuro calls to be mado at intervals of less than two months, or to exceed 10s. per share.2,460 shares only aro opon for allotmont, tho romiln
luff 1,050 being reserved for the original pro- prietary.
Alfred Smith, Esq. (Messrs. Ford and Smith), Back Creek.
J. Andrews, Esq., Chairman or the Municipal Council, Back Creek.
Robert Miller, Esq,, Back Creek.
Richard Thorne, Esq, Back Creek

As there were "hundreds" of Robert Miller deaths registered in Victoria alone, between 1861 and 1980s to find a possible death ( thats if he died here? ) and didnt return to the U.K.....we would need to know his parentage to find a possible death registered.

Australian deaths record deceased parents..if known by the informant.

Tony ( Victoria )

What I couldn't find before:


1871

Name: Jno C Miller
Age: 10
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1861
Relation: Boarder
Gender: Male
>> Where born: Nk, Australia
Civil parish: Sheffield


It says Australia right there!

I'd guess that his parents were prosperous in Australia and sent the son home to school.

I have to get back to correcting the remaining 30 or so of the 48 trees at Ancestry that have my Cornwall grx4 grandparents (he was the parish clerk, no less!) as the parents of someone who was born, married and died in Tennessee, and whose surname was only vaguely similar anyway ...

They do it because they think once they've paid their money to Ancestry, they will have instant canned family tree! And because they just don't care ...

aha, on the tree with a source it gives the birth I found and then the wrong parents on the tree, no doubt copied from another, why do they do it without checking???

Yes indeed, John Miller's second marriage -- note wife's surname:

JOHN MILLER
Spouse: ELIZABETH SMITH
Marriage: 27 OCT 1836 Worksop, Nottingham, England
Batch No.: M008622

1851 household in Worksop (it really is best to give full details, e.g. names of parents, not just occupation of father ...)

John Miller 65
Elizabeth Miller 63
Elizabeth Miller 22
Robert C Miller 20
Ann Smith 60 - sister-in-law, unmarried
Ann Grant 21
Jane Wakings 18

1841, same household

John Miller 50 - malster (maltster)
Elizabeth Miller 50
Robert Miller 10
Elizabeth Hogg 15
Elizabeth Sarginson 15

- living next door to Thomas Clarkson, 60, Coal Merchant - maybe father-in-law?


But the baptism above shows mother Mary. Did father marry twice maybe? So is Elizabeth Hogg in 1841 Elizabeth Miller in 1851, and the wife's daughter from previous marriage maybe?

Sorry Janey I was bumbling about on ozzie trees, extracted record

oz trees give Elizabeth Thom as mother, so I could be wrong, not the first time !