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But just for musing, what about Walmer, Kent? It's the minor place 2 miles south, which might well be subsumed by Deal when someone on the other side of the world was talking about a deceased's birthplace (as he might have done himself, in the usual pattern -- people might have heard of Deal).


Searching the censuses for Dixons born in Walmer, here's one in 1881:

Name: May Gardener
[Mary Ann Gardner]
[Mary Ann Dixon]
Age: 78
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1803
Relation: Mother in Law
Where born: Walmer, Kent, England

Civil parish: Rotherhithe

Thomas Simmons 41 - bon Hereson, Kent, ship's carpenter
Emma Simmons 41 - born Walmer (daughter of Mary Ann Dixon Gardner)
May Gardener 78


She was Dixon, married Gardner, according to the notes by the Ancestry user. And she was the same generation as George.


Another one the same generation, in 1851:

Name: John East Dixon
Age: 46
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1805
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Ann Dixon
Mother's name: Easter Dixon c1791, born Deal
Where born: Walmer, Kent, England
Civil parish: Wye
County/Island: Kent
Member of RCSL? & licentiate of AC? not practising
(Royal College of ...? ... google says: RCSL = Royal College of Surgeons)


These Dixons of Deal were not peasants!


Some more Dixon/Gardners in 1851 -- Joseph would be the father of Mary Ann Dixon Gardner 1803:

Joseph Dixon 77 - born Deal c1774 - cowkeeper
Mary Dixon 16 - born Walmer c1775 (yes, I fixed it at Ancestry)
Charlotte Gardner 16 - granddaughter, born Walmer
Emma Gardner 10 - ditto
Civil parish: Deal
County/Island: Kent


Submitted record:

Mary Ann Dixon
Birth: 09 FEB 1803 Deal, Kent, England
Father: Joseph Dixon
Mother: Mary Coleman

Results for:
Birth/Christening, 1795 - 1815, Kent, England, British Isles
Father: Joseph Dixon,
Mother: Mary

1. Joseph Dixon - Birth: 30 OCT 1797 Deal, Kent, England
2. Richard Bell Dixon - Birth: 07 APR 1799 Deal, Kent, England
3. Lucy Walker Dixon - Birth: 25 JAN 1801 Deal, Kent, England
4. Mary Ann Dixon - Birth: 09 FEB 1803 Deal, Kent, England
5. Henry Norris Dixon - Birth: 19 AUG 1804 Deal, Kent, England
6. Sara Norris Dixon - Birth: 31 DEC 1806 Deal, Kent, England
7. Lucy Walker Dixon - Birth: 11 SEP 1808 Deal, Kent, England
8. Joshua Sayer Dixon - Birth: 17 APR 1810 Deal, Kent, England
9. Martha Hill Dixon - Birth: 30 DEC 1812 Deal, Kent, England
10. Joseph Ickendon Dixon - Birth: 28 SEP 1814 Deal, Kent, England


-- all records are submitted, but someone seems to have been through the parish records -- although in that case one would expect to see baptisms rather than births ...

There's room for a George 1809! but just barely barely. So kind of unlikely.


Here's where the Pain came from -- this is John the surgeon, submitted record (somebody has really worked on the Dixons of Deal):

John Dixon
Birth: 13 DEC 1805 Deal, Kent, England
Father: John Dixon
Mother: Esther Pain

Results for:
Birth/Christening, 1785 - 1825, Kent, England, British Isles
Father: John Dixon,
Mother: Esther

1. Thomas Pain Dixon - Birth: 14 SEP 1799 Deal, Kent, England
2. Lucy Pain Dixon - Birth: 27 OCT 1801 Deal, Kent, England
3. Joseph Dixon - Birth: 12 AUG 1803 Deal, Kent, England
4. John Dixon - Birth: 13 DEC 1805 Deal, Kent, England
5. Richard Dixon - Birth: 1806 Deal, Kent, England
6. May Ann Dixon - Birth: 1816 Deal, Kent, England
7. Mary Ann Dixon - Christening: 27 DEC 1811 Deal, Kent, England
8. Richard Dixon - IChristening: 04 SEP 1808 Deal, Kent, England
(last two are extracted)

Now, there's room there for a George.

I'm just wondering whether whoever the famliies are who've done this research might not have been aware of a George who got transported.

Ahem! One did just mention on the first page that Deal and Walmer are often quoted in the same breath..........tuts. ;-)


If you're busy AS, I will willingly contact the chappie who does look ups for that area. :D


Now, if your George Dixon (keeps reminding me of Dock Green), was born in the Medway area, the parish records for that area are all on line and a whizz to search through!


Cx

edit -- oops, one did mention that indeed, and one paid no attention, did one? ;)

and edit -- I realize that these baptisms were most/all also posted, but this sorts them into family groups and date ranges.


According to Hugh Wallis, these are the only extracted records in the IGI for Deal (none for Walmer):

Deal
(Ebenezer Wesleyan)
C068171 1806-1837
(Independent)
C068161 1802-1837
C068162 1681-1802

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~hughwallis/IGIBatchNumbers/CountyKent.htm#D


pilot.familysearch shows a Mary Elizabeth Dixon birth in Walmer 1816 to Charles Dixon and Mary -- IGI also has a James Dixon 1814 to same parents, extracted record, same batch as the birth below, C042410 (which is not in Hugh Wallis's list for Kent).

A birth to unmarried parents might be interesting (from pilot.familysearch):

Name: Mary Ann Dixon
Baptism/Christening Date: 18 Jul 1813
Baptism/Christening Place: Walmer, Kent,
Father's Name:
Mother's Name: Amphillis Dixon
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C04241-0
Collection: England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975

Submitted record in IGI:

Amphillis Dixon
Birth: 26 JUL 1782 Deal, Kent, England
Father: Richard Bell Dixon
Mother: Mary Tolputt

Must be a connection with Richard Bell Dixon 1799, son of Joseph and Mary. The connection seems to be:

Amphillis Dixon
Birth: 15 DEC 1749 Deal, Kent, England
Death: 03 JUN 1779 Deal, Kent, England
> Father: John Dixon
> Mother: Ann Bell

who seem to have had a daughter Emphillis Dixon in 1742 - extracted record batch C068162 -- who may or may not the same as the submitted one above, I suppsoe.

Are you sure that Emphillis is a name and not a disease JC ??? lol

phTHIsis! 'scuse me.


Mandeville just isn't that common a surname. Have you contacted the people with these ones in their trees?

Joanna Mandeville 1837 Tipperary, Ireland, ...
Francis Mandeville 1829 Clonmel, Ireland No
Francis Mandeville 1829 Clonmel. Tipperary, ...

NSW records show a James and Margaret having children in the 1860s-70s.

Note spelling of Clonmel. ;)

Then google clonmel ireland mandeville.

http://genforum.genealogy.com/mandeville/messages/166.html

"Andrew Mandeville of Clonmel was born about 1820. Mandeville family say there hasn't been an Andrew in the family for 500years.
Keen to hear from anyone with an ancestor named Andrew or migrating from Clonmel area of Tipperary."
"I have info on Andrew Mandeville from Clonmel circa 1820. This information part of a Mandeville geneology book I wrote. Would be happy to send you the chapter relevant to Andrew if you tell me where to mail it."

Oh Janey, You have done that magnificently. That proves the families are different. I did wonder if George may have been a child prisoner and transported at age 6.

I may have found another source for George Dixon ie the George Dixon born c1809, transported to Oz, etc, etc. I am waiting to hear from another researcher who has a connection to the family. I have recently found out about her through a chance request to a historical society in NSW.

It is interesting that George Dixon partnered Ann Mandeville (note I do not say married) and their daughter was Mary Ann Dixon.

I am not certain about the proliferation of the Mandeville name. Somewhere I have heard/read/seen that they were a wealthy family who squandered their fortune.

I have skimmed through much of the replies and I really need to go back and look at them more thoroughly. Thank you everyone for your assistance.

Cynthia yes please ask about the information from your source. Hi how are you good to hear from you again. And hi to anyone else I have not said g'day to yet.

Hi AS,

I posed your query and have received this reply .......


"George was not a common name among the Dixons in Deal - I have searched the records for Deal and Walmer and found only ony George anywhere near that date born 1782 to John & Sara. A bit far out, I know but there is one more church left to try whose records are, annoyingly, on microfiche and I am in the process of copying, but haven't got back that far yet. Will be down at the Library thisa week so will have a look. "

****************

Oddly enough, someone else on the same page was looking for a Mary Ann Dixon (her Gt.Grandmother). The chap doing the lookups found one possible...........daughter of above Amphillis!!! How's that for a small world?? :D


I will let you know when he gets back to me. Cx

And you thought Amphillis was a germ. XP I did a GRO search for the name, and it seems to be endemic to West Bromwich for some reason! A genetic one, perhaps. ;)

I do wonder about the old question: baptised under mother's surname, but went by father's / stepfather's surname.

And I still wonder about spelling shifts. Interestingly, there are a couple of dozen Dickson events in Deal in the early 1700s, but none later, so maybe they all shifted to Dixon.

Heh, on the first theory, I'd go for this one, if I could choose:

Name: John George Porridge Magee
Baptism/Christening Date: 07 Mar 1810
Baptism/Christening Place: Deal, Kent, England
Father's Name:
Mother's Name: Elizabeth Magee
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C04265-4
Collection: England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975

Father Porridge, one suspects.

That's the only George no-father baptism 1808-1810 in Deal. No Georges at all in Walmer. And I can't see any other reference to Elizabeth Magee. Various Porridge things in Deal. ... Oh well, JGPM married and reproduced under that name, so not him. ;)

This bit is related to my search. Anne Mandeville's father was Andrew and her mother Johanna Hayes. That info is also written on her immigration to Australia paperwork.

http://genforum.genealogy.com/mandeville/messages/166.html

"Andrew Mandeville of Clonmel was born about 1820. Mandeville family say there hasn't been an Andrew in the family for 500years.
Keen to hear from anyone with an ancestor named Andrew or migrating from Clonmel area of Tipperary."
"I have info on Andrew Mandeville from Clonmel circa 1820. This information part of a Mandeville geneology book I wrote. Would be happy to send you the chapter relevant to Andrew if you tell me where to mail it."

Hi LadyKira, I have fond memories of the last time you assisted. Still have the thread saved somewhere, not to mention a ream or two of paper covered in minute scribbles. Aunty


Here are the George Dixon births in Kent between 1807 and 1811. Put this into the thread filler category. Now going in to look at each one. After I put on some warm clothes, it is freezing over here tonight.


1. GEORGE-FILMER DIXON - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 29 MAR 1807 St Peter'S, Sandwich, Kent, England

2. George Dixon - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 28 FEB 1808 St Mary Northgat, Canterbury, Kent, England

3. GEORGE FRAZER DIXON - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Birth: 07 MAY 1808

4. GEORGE FRAZER DIXON - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 22 MAY 1808 Scots Church, Woolwich, Kent, England

5. GEO. DIXON - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 24 MAR 1811 St Alphage, Greenwich, Kent, England

6. GEORGE FRASER DIXON - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Birth: 31 JAN 1811

7. GEORGE FRASER DIXON - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 17 FEB 1811 Scots Church, Woolwich, Kent, England

8. George Dickenson - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 06 SEP 1811 Maidstone, Kent, England

2. George Dixon - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 28 FEB 1808 St Mary Northgat, Canterbury, Kent, England

I have decided this one will be my convict. I don't want him to appear on any UK census after 1828. Therefore he will not be on any censuses. He can have parents but there must be a gap in the family list where he would have been had he not been transported.

If you would like to read about his trial this is the link.

Old Bailey Proceedings Online (www.oldbaileyonline.org, version 6.0, 23 April 2011), February 1828, trial of GEORGE DIXON (t18280221-257).

Hopefully my State library will have a copy of this. George Ddixon would have been in Australia for this census.


Census of New South Wales & Norfolk Island - 1828
Forms were issued on 18 September 1828 to each Magistrate Bench. District Constables, accompanied by a clerk, then visited each house and farm to complete the forms. First completed forms were submitted 8 November 1828, with some straggling in in the early months of 1829.
Some household and institutional returns survive. Alphabetic compilations from the returns have however survived. Details shown - Name, Age, Free/Bond, Ship of Arrival, Year of Arrival, Sentence, Religion, Occupation, Employer or Remarks, Residence, Acres Cleared/Cultivated/Total, Cattle, Sheep, Other Livestock.
PRO ref: HO10/21-28 AO ref: 4/1238.1, 1238.2, 1239.1, 1239.2, 1240 and 1241
Published as "Census of New South Wales, November 1828", Library of Australian History, Sydney, 1980, ISBN 0 908120 31 1.

On the Nutters thread, you asked for info on the

2. George Dixon - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 28 FEB 1808 St Mary Northgat, Canterbury, Kent, England

Unfortunately, the 2 discs I have don't include Canterbury. Cynthia could probably confirm, but it is possible that Northgat is more usually known as Northgate ie, St Marys Church located next to/near the North Gate in the City Walls.

Uh ha - from Historic Canterbury - St Mary Northgate, west side of Northgate Street, Canterbury.

The records are held at Canterbury Archives.

Yeah, I figured Northgate too, and it seems my cousin has the same discs. ;)

Geographically, I think this one is more likely:

1. GEORGE-FILMER DIXON - Christening: 29 MAR 1807 St Peter'S, Sandwich, Kent, England
parents Thomas Dixon and Elizabeth, but submitted record

batch 9004140

shows one other birth to same parents:

2. MARY-JANE DIXON - Christening: 07 JUN 1812 St Peter'S, Sandwich, Kent, England

plus a Thomas Dixon 1814, mother Sarah Dixon


Sandwich is about 10 miles NNW of Deal, slightly inland.

Can't you give an actual link to George's trial record at oldbaileyonline? Sigh ...

http://www.oldbaileyonline.org/browse.jsp?ref=t18280221-257


Okay, it was lead roofing tiles that he stole from a roof where they were waiting to be installed.

He said he went to the house because he had no money to pay for a lodging.


More useful:

"JOHN JAMES . I am a sailor, and lodge in Rosemary-lane, with the prisoner. On Saturday evening, the 2d of February, he left me about 6 o'clock - I know the knife produced to be his; I have often borrowed it."

So it's good odds that George was a sailor too.


19 yrs old on 21st February 1828.

The address was Church Lane, St George's -- there are so many St George's this or that around London, does anybody know what this one would be?

Maybe?

Church Lane St George St George, East

Seems to be the only one to suit on 1841 address search.

Rosemary Lane St Botolph Aldgate Whitechapel Middlesex

Still don't know what that Church Lane is. ;) "St George's in the East", being what I was thinking?

Anyhow, if he was a sailor in lodgings, I imagine it's pointless to be looking for family in the vicinity. He was most likely transient in the London area.

I may have ruled out my choice for George -- in the 1851:

Name: George Dixon
Age: 45
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1806
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Ann Dixon
>> Where born: Sandwich, Kent, England

Civil parish: Canterbury St Paul
County/Island: Kent

Rosemary Lane is now known as Royal Mint Street and St. George's-in-the-East has a good webpage about the history of the area.


Not that it helps....but it was interesting to read!

Cx