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:-0

Well just to really mess with your head Joe!


1871 England Census
about Josh Carter
Name: Josh Carter
Age: 11
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1860
Relation: Son
Mother's name: Martha Carter
Gender: Male
Where born: Manchester
Civil parish: Manchester
Ecclesiastical parish: St Paul
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Registration district: Manchester
Sub-registration district: London Road
ED, institution, or vessel: 22
Household schedule number: 226
Piece: 4043
Folio: 161
Page Number: 39
Household Members: Name Age
Martha Carter 40
James Carter 21
Josh Carter 11
Mary E Carter 5

no, my head just looks big. Underneath the water I have a withered 4ft body.

I reckon Joe looks like a front row forward Dea... not unlike Sean Fitzpatrick .. Don't think Sean uses Nivea tho.

:-) :-) :-)

Persie

sorry for the double posting.

Oh dear :-(

He may as well be a Tinker or a Soldier or a Spy, with a name like Henry :-\

This places completely the wrong man at the scene of the crime....

I needed to get Michael Carter but have ended up with a Henry.

Perhaps she forgot his name? Perhaps she hated him so much she told her children their real father was called Michael???

Perhaps Michael was just a pet name for Henry?

Perhaps his real name was Michael Henry but he called himself Henry?

But in this case why are none of his kids called Michael but there is a John Henry?

none of it makes sense. I feel I have been led up the garden path by this slippery ancestor.. In fact I think our Michael is taking the Michael! From beyond the grave!

right, I am off to sniff some dangerous chemicals in my laboratory, or to smoke my pipe or play chess, as Sherlock would. Hopefully this will sort my head out and help me in solving this mystery and to finally Get Carter! :-\

Oh dear :-(

He may as well be a Tinker or a Soldier or a Spy, with a name like Henry :-\

This places completely the wrong man at the scene of the crime....

I needed to get Michael Carter but have ended up with a Henry.

Perhaps she forgot his name? Perhaps she hated him so much she told her children their real father was called Michael???

Perhaps Michael was just a pet name for Henry?

Perhaps his real name was Michael Henry but he called himself Henry?

But in this case why are none of his kids called Michael but there is a John Henry?

none of it makes sense. I feel I have been led up the garden path by this slippery ancestor.. In fact I think our Michael is taking the Michael! From beyond the grave!

right, I am off to sniff some dangerous chemicals in my laboratory, or to smoke my pipe or play chess, as Sherlock would. Hopefully this will sort my head out and help me in solving this mystery and to finally Get Carter! :-\

Unfortunately - this family on 1851 shows Mary married to 'Henry', though he IS a Tailor ??

1851 England Census
about Henry Carter Name: Henry Carter
Age: 34
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1817
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Mary Carter
Gender: M (Male)
Where born: Lancashire Kirkam

Civil parish: Hulme
Ecclesiastical parish: St George
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Registration district: Chorlton
Sub-registration district: Hulme
ED, institution, or vessel: 2t
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 174
Piece: 2221
Folio: 555
Page Number: 43
Household Members: Name Age
Henry Carter 34 Tailor
Mary Carter 26
John Henry Carter 8
Charles Carter 6
Mary Helen Carter 1

at Hobard?? St.

Source Citation: Class: HO107; Piece: 2221; Folio: 555; Page: 43; GSU roll: .


Dea x

The two below seem most promising at the moment.
I have numbered them 1 and 2, census 1861 and census 1871.

It's clear they are the same family, and even if Joseph was registered in 1861 it is possible that Lancashire Anne's birth entry for Joseph in Chorlton for 1860 below is right...though not sure why he wasn't on the 1861 census if he had actually been born in 1860?

She is already a widow in 1861 and there is a 10 -year age gap between first son John H and the next child, though it's possible some have left home already or died, so that doesn't mean much.

The area of Chorlton is definitely on the right track, rather than Salford, Rochdale or Oldham - but so far there are no marriages for father Michael Carter to Mary....in this area. As the eldest son John H was born in 1842, it's possible she could have been married before and he is from a first marriage. But also that the marriage was around or before this time.

Thanks all for the help, if you can spot anything I might have missed I'd be grateful , I think I'm learning to think ' outside the box' as Ann said, but I'm still quite new to this...so only room for improvement!




1) 1861 - census


1861 England Census about Mary Carter
Name: Mary Carter
Age: 36
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1825
Relation: Head
Gender: Female
Where born: Manchester, Lancashire, England

Civil parish: Hulme
Ecclesiastical parish: Holy Trinity
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

View image

Registration district: Chorlton
Sub-registration district: Hulme
ED, institution, or vessel: 16
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 65
Piece: 2889
Folio: 97
Page Number: 10
Household Members:
Name Age
Mary Carter 36
John H Carter 19
Robert Carter 9
Nathaniel Carter 7
Henrietta Carter 5
Emily Carter 3
Frederick Carter 1

Widow


2) 1871- census


mothers occupation dressmaker

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

CARTER, Mary Head F 46 1825 Lancashire VIEW
CARTER, Charles Son M 26 1845 Lancashire VIEW
CARTER, Robert Son M 19 1852 Lancashire VIEW
CARTER, Nathaniel Son M 17 1854 Lancashire VIEW
CARTER, Emily Daughter F 13 1858 Lancashire VIEW
CARTER, Joseph Son M 9 1862 Lancashire VIEW

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RG number:
RG10 Piece:
3994 Folio:
76 Page:
35

Registration District:
Chorlton Sub District:
Chorlton upon Medlock Enumeration District:
46 Ecclesiastical Parish:


Civil Parish:
Chorlton on Medlock Municipal Borough:
Manchester Address:
Harrop Street, Chorlton On Medlock, Manchester County:
Lancashire

:-)

is this not your Joseph's birth reg?

Births Jun 1860 (>99%)
CARTER Joseph Chorlton 8c 523

Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1847
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
CARTER Michael COLLINGE Mary A Saddleworth, St. Chad Oldham CE243/2/144

Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1855
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
CARTER Michael BOLTON Betty Rochdale, St Chad Rochdale CE11/22/193

Maddie, is it feasible in your opinion that Michael and Mary could/would have moved from Rochdale at that time ? I'd love to know more about population movements at this time. I do know that Manchester was the hub of the industrial revolution, so I suppose it's possible isn't it? Most of the factories were concentrated around Ancoats and Chorlton so it doesn't seem far fetched to imagine moving from Rochdale?

Oppps - when I posted this, I had no replies to your thread - there are several now so give me time to go back and read them please :-S

GR 'glitch' methinks !!

Dea x

I'm back now - where are Youooooooooooo?

Answers please for Vera and me!

Dea x

Maddie, it's great!! I have a lesson now, but could this be our Mary I wonder??

well there is this ????
BMD Search result details

Civil Registration event: Marriage
Name: CARTER, Michael
Registration District: Help Rochdale
County: Lancashire
Year of Registration: 1855
Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
Spouse's last name: Not available before 1912
Volume No: Help 8E
Page No: Help 75
MarriageFinder™: Michael Carter married one of the following people Help
WOODHEAD, Mary Ann view record

Helen, if we could find a marriage for a Mary Carter and a Michael Carter

I think we might just possibly be able to say that we have GOT CARTER!

wow Shirley that surely is a tempting one, but Durham??
'
I wonder if families would have moved that far afield in those days, would Manchester's industrial might have had such a pull??

The Dad's profession and name is perfect...the age, giving Joseph at 4 in 1861 , takes it four or so years before what it should be....but still....

I wonder??

1861 England Census about Mary Carter
Name: Mary Carter
Age: 36
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1825
Relation: Head
Gender: Female
Where born: Manchester, Lancashire, England

Civil parish: Hulme
Ecclesiastical parish: Holy Trinity
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

View image

Registration district: Chorlton
Sub-registration district: Hulme
ED, institution, or vessel: 16
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 65
Piece: 2889
Folio: 97
Page Number: 10
Household Members:
Name Age
Mary Carter 36
John H Carter 19
Robert Carter 9
Nathaniel Carter 7
Henrietta Carter 5
Emily Carter 3
Frederick Carter 1

Widow

Maddie, the certs haven't arrived yet, my Mum posted them to me , she just gave me the main info over the phone.

So does that mean it could be either your 17:41 or your 17:48 for the birth year? 1861 or 1863?

Vera your 17:47 looks very possible as the father was deceased by 1883,
His age fits too on this and Chorlton on Medlock is the right area....

safc, Heywood is quite central too, possible for the area, and the Dad's name fits, but just the age is a bit out.