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i would like to say thank you so much both of you ive been on this and so confused i cnt get things up u have both been a big help

Dorothy's birh cert will give you her parents names the you can look for the marriage on FreeBMD he says he was born in Tottenham on the 1911 census

ok thanks ill have a look will his parents name be on there ?

no Dorothys birth cert will have her parents names.

The marriage cert for William when you know the right names to look for,should show his fathers name . England /Wales marriage certs only show the fathers names ,if known and given by the parties when they put the banns in

Anyway glad to have been able to help. The name Danree was fairly easy to find when you have subs to sites like Ancestry and Find My Past.

I think we have given you some info that needs sorting into order. :-D

i dont understand lol im cofused all i know is he called william allen and thats it llol

Buy Dorothy's birth cert i gave you the GRO ref for it ,The cert will name her mum and dad, When you know her mums name you can look for a marriage for them .You would then have to buy their marrige cert to see their ages and their fathers names if they gave them .

You cant go any further now without buying some certs . This genealogy hobby can get expensive ! lol

marriage to Emma was possibly William's second marriage

1901 census

Address: Eagle House, Edmonton

Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth Year Occupation Disability Where Born

ALLEN, William Head Married M 29 1872 Handyman Tottenham Middlesex
ALLEN, Elizabeth Wife Married F 32 1869 Not Known

1891 census not with his parents

Address: 5, Park Lane, Tottenham

Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth Year Occupation Disability Where Born

ALLEN, George Head Married M 65 1826 Gardener Bayford Hertfordshire
ALLEN, Mary Wife Married F 67 1824 Bayford Hertfordshire
ALLEN, William Nephew Single M 19 1872 Gardener Tottenham Middlesex
HAYFORD, Jane Boarder Widow F 62 1829 Clerkenwell Middlesex
HAYFORD, George Son Single M 30 1861 Wood Turner Clerkenwell London

with his grandparents (same people as 1891 where he was a nephew!!) on 1881 census

Address: 12, Stanley Grove, Tottenham

Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth Year Occupation Disability Where Born

ALLEN, George Head Married M 55 1826 Gardener Bayford Middlesex
ALLEN, Mary A Wife Married F 58 1823 Bayford Middlesex
ALLEN, William Grand Son Single M 9 1872 Scholar Tottenham Middlesex

this chap is a gardener living at 5 Park Lane, same address as 1891 census

London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921
about William James Allen Name: William James Allen
Age: 19
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1873
Spouse Name: Elizabeth Potter Emma Mary Chapman
Spouse Age: 22
Record Type: Marriage
Marriage Date: 10 Jan 1892
Parish: All Hallows, Tottenham
County: London
Borough: Haringey
Spouse Father Name: Edward Chapman (designer, deceased)

the space for William's father's name has a line through it

When get cer what bits do i put in

Eagle House, Edmonton was wear dorothy was born so that her mum and dad but how will i find her mum madian name and her dad mum and dad

I would hazard a guess that William James Allen was the illegitimate son of one of the daughters of George and Mary Ann Allen
Eliza 1852, or Hannah 1854,
This would explain no father being entered on the marriage cert
Possible birth reg for William (having swapped names around as they often did)
James William Allen b1872 Jun Q Edmonton 3a 202

so the 1901 census I posted would seem to be the correct father

to find Dorothy's mother's maiden name you will need to order her birth cert from www.gro.gov.uk for £9.25

using the references shirley gave you earlier

Name: Dorothy Elizabeth F E Allen
Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1907
Registration district: Edmonton
Inferred County: Middlesex
Volume: 3a
Page: 578

and how will i find out who willam mum was or the hannah and eliza birth cerficates

1871 census

Address: Church Rd, Tottenham

Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth Year Occupation Where Born

ALLEN, George Head M 45 1826 Hertfordshire Bayford
ALLEN, Mary A Wife F 67 1804 Hertfordshire Bayford
ALLEN, Eliza Daughter F 20 1851 Hertfordshire Cheshunt
ALLEN, Hannah Daughter F 17 1854 Hertfordshire Cheshunt
ALLEN, Joseph Son M 10 1861 Hertfordshire Cheshunt

1861 census

Address: Crawlers Cottages, Cheshunt

Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth Year Occupation Disability Where Born

ALLEN, George Head Married M 34 1827 Head Gardener Serv Bayford Hertfordshire
ALLEN, Mary Ann Wife Married F 39 1822 Bayford Hertfordshire
ALLEN, Eliza Daughter F 9 1852 Scholar Cheshunt Hertfordshire
ALLEN, Hannah Daughter F 7 1854 Scholar Cheshunt Hertfordshire
ALLEN, George Son M 2 1859 Cheshunt Hertfordshire
ALLEN, Joseph Son M 1 1860 Cheshunt Hertfordshire
ALLEN, Emily Daughter F 1 1860 Cheshunt Hertfordshire

Hannah's marriage

London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921
about Hannah Allen Name: Hannah Allen
Age: 22
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1853
Spouse Name: John Winder Newby (millman)
Spouse Age: 22
Record Type: Marriage
Marriage Date: 07 Feb 1875
Parish: All Hallows, Tottenham
County: Middlesex
Borough: Haringey
Father Name: George Allen (gardener)
Spouse Father Name: Moses Newby (millman)

witnesses were Robert and Eliza Haygreen

London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921
about Eliza Allen Name: Eliza Allen
Spouse Name: Robert Haygreen (gardener)
Spouse Age: Full Age
Record Type: Marriage
Marriage Date: 17 Aug 1871
Parish: All Hallows, Tottenham
County: Middlesex
Borough: Haringey
Father Name: George Allen (gardener)
Spouse Father Name: Arthur Haygreen (labourer)

witnesses were Edwin Goode and Hannah Allen