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I thought it was Elizabeth Lilian that was born in 1897?

:-S

Clive, I believe you have Elizabeth Alice Swan's birth certificate, 1897? Her mother was Elizabeth Alice Forsdick born abt 1870/71 and it's her birth certificate that we think you should buy.

Hi Maureen Missed read SOOORRRyyy!!!!! Clive.

If that tree is correct what about this marriage? Just gets more confusing!

Marriages Dec 1857 (>99%)
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Dawkins Mary Ann Towcester 3b 59
Varney Thomas Forsdick Towcester 3b 59

Maureen,
I have Elizabeth Alice's birth cert , as previously posted maiden nane Forsdick.
Clive.

There's a tree on Ancestry (unsubstantiated) that says Elizabeth Alice's mother was Mary Ann Dawkins 1836 - 1911.

Still need certificate to prove it.

Clive,
I think you're just going to have to purchase the birth certificate to find out Elizabeth Alice's mother's maiden name.

Maureen

I believe that Elizabeth Alice's parents are Thomas & Mary Ann as posted on the censuses on page 1. But she's not Mary Ann Elizabeth Bellamy. She married William Willy.

I really think you should order her birth certificate:

Births Dec 1871 (>99%)
Forsdick Elizabeth Alice W. Ham 4a 33

Hi Marie Celeste I meant Last details on thread not email as posted. Clive :-)

Elizabeth Lilian's baptism:

London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906

Name: Elizabeth Lilian Swan
Record Type: Baptism
Estimated Birth Date: abt 1897
Baptism Date: 13 Oct 1897
Father's Name: Arthur Lewis Swan << Labourer
Mother's Name: Elizabeth Alice Swan
Parish or Poor Law Union: St Mary Stratford Bow
Borough: Tower Hamlets

Address: 40 Wellington Road

Witnesses to the marriage are likely:

Marriages Sep 1886
FORSDICK Caroline Mile End 1c 785
Woodley John Mile End 1c 785

London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921 about John Woodley
Name: John Woodley
Age: 20
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1866
Spouse Name: Caroline Forsdick 14 Arcadia St
Spouse Age: 20
Record Type: Marriage
Marriage Date: 12 Sep 1886
Parish: St Paul, Bow Common
County: Middlesex
Borough: Tower Hamlets
Father Name: Josiah Woodley
Spouse Father Name: Thomas Forsdick Occ:Carpenter


1891 census transcription details for: 6, Albion Street, Mile End Old Town

RG number: RG12 Piece: 310 Folio: 151 Page: 71


Reg. District: Mile End Old Town Sub District: Mile End Old Town Western
Parish: Mile End Old Town Enum. District: 32
Ecclesiastical District: Trinity Stepney City/Municipal Borough:
Address: 6, Albion Street, Mile End Old Town
County: London


WOODLEY, John Head Married M 24 1867 Grave Digger
Mile End
London
WOODLEY, Caroline Wife Married F 24 1867
Plaistow
Essex
WOODLEY, John Son M 2 1889
Mile End
London
WOODLEY, Caroline Daughter F 0 (6M) 1891
Mile End
London
WOODLEY, Emily Niece F 7 1884
Poplar
London

Maureen

Margee your last email timed at 13:35 is correct so can you tell me who Elizabeth's Ancesters are.
Clive :-)

More info on that 1895 marriage:

London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921

Name: Elizabeth Alice Forsdick
Age: 23 < Spinster, of 40 Hall Street
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1872
Spouse Name: Arthur Louis Swan < Bachelor, Labourer of 112 Fern Street
Spouse Age: 30
Record Type: Marriage
Marriage Date: 21 Jul 1895
Parish: St Paul, Bow Common
County: London
Borough: Tower Hamlets
Father Name: Thomas Forsdick < Carpenter
Spouse Father Name: Alfred Swan < Gentleman

Witnesses were John and Caroline Woodley

So Elizabeth L. Swan's mother was Elizabeth Alice Forsdick born 1871, Plaistow, Essex?

This looks like her birth:

Births Dec 1871 (>99%)
Forsdick Elizabeth Alice W. Ham 4a 33

No, I guess this is Elizabeth's birth:

Births Dec 1897 (>99%)
Swan Elizabeth Lillian Poplar 1c 606

Andthis is the family in 1901:

1901 England Census
about Elizabeth L Swan Name: Elizabeth L Swan
Age: 3
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1898
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Arthur L Swan
Mother's Name: Elizabeth A Swan
Gender: Female
Where born: Bromley E, London, England

Civil parish: West Ham
Ecclesiastical parish: St Gabriel
County/Island: Essex
Country: England
Registration district: West Ham
Sub-registration district: Plaistow
ED, institution, or vessel: 59
Household schedule number: 287
Piece: 1577
Folio: 55
Page Number: 42
Household Members: Name Age
Arthur L Swan 36 <<<<<<born Mile End, London
Elizabeth A Swan 30 <<<<<<born Plaistow, Essex
Elizabeth L Swan 3 <<<<<born Bromley, E. London

Is this the marriage of Elizabeth's mother, making Elizabeth born before her mother's marriage?

Marriages Sep 1895 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Forsdick Elizabeth Alice Mile End 1c 649
Swan Arthur Louis Mile End 1c 649

The only Elizabeth Forsdick I can see on FreeBMD between 1891-1901 is this one:

Births Mar 1895 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Forsdick Elizabeth Alice M Ipswich 4a 926

Well, who are Elizabeth's parents on her birth certificate?

Margee
These are ancesters of my g.gmother Elizabeth Swan forrmerly Forsdick from my g.mothers birth cert Elizabeth b.1897 Bromley, London.
So with now this conflicting info I am a bit confused as to Elizabeth Forsdick's parents let alone Thomas Fosdick's wife ect.

Clive

Clive,
Thomas was married to a Mary Ann. The only census with him married to a Margaret is the 1881 and, as I said above, the image is not Margaret.