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Person: BUCKLAND, Florence
Address: 127 Woodville Road Cardiff


BUCKLAND, Fanny Head Widow F 60 1851 General Dealer Somth Bath VIEW
BUCKLAND, Florence Daughter Single F 25 1886 Assiting In The Buss Somth Bath VIEW

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RG number:
RG14 Piece:
32104 Reference:
RG14PN32104 RG78PN1846 RD588 SD3 ED5 SN115

Births Jun 1886 (>99%)
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Buckland Florence Edith Bath 5c 626

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Marriages Sep 1878 (>99%)
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BUCKLAND James Albert Cardiff 11a 287
Fisher Mary Cardiff 11a 287
STONE Fanny Cardiff 11a 287
Wheadon William Albert Cardiff 11a 287

On Herbert's military record it says his wife died 22nd Oct 1918 Cardiff.

He was a Driver for motor Transport while in the Army.

Still reading through it may show something.

Sue

It would appear fairly obvious that the 'death at sea' was that of the Master Mariner

1871 for Herbert's grandparents

Name: Seth Richards
Age: 39
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1832
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Elizabeth Richards
Gender: Male
Where born: Chisonewton, Monmouthshire, Wales
Civil parish: St Woollos
Ecclesiastical parish: St Woollos
Town: Newport
County/Island: Monmouthshire
Country: Wales
Registration district: Newport
Sub-registration district: Newport
ED, institution, or vessel: 26
Household schedule number: 118
Piece: 5348
Folio: 62
Page Number: 20
Household Members: Name Age
Seth Richards 39
Elizabeth Richards 39
Elizabeth Richards 7
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AND 1861

Name: Seth Richards
Age: 29
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1832
Relation: Boarder
Gender: Male
Where born: Shire Newton, Monmouthshire, Wales

Civil Parish or Township: Neath
Town: Neath
County/Island: Glamorgan
Country: Wales


Registration district: Neath
Sub-registration district: Neath
ED, institution, or vessel: 14
Household schedule number: 31
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 4086
Folio: 6
Page Number: 6
Household Members: Name Age
John Howell 52
Mary Howell 58
Angelina Howell 12
Seth Richards 29
Elizabeth Richards 29
Seth Richards 2
Richard Thomas 22

They didn't have a son named HERBERT

Births Mar 1859 (>99%)
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RICHARDS Seth Walter Pembroke 11a 705

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Deaths Dec 1861 (>99%)
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Richards Seth Walter Pembroke 11a 401

Births Mar 1886 (>99%)
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RICHARDS Herbert Newport M 11a 209

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Births Mar 1888 (>99%)
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RICHARDS Herbert Newport M 11a 209

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1891 census for the 1888 birth

Name: Herbert Richards
Age: 3
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1888
Relation: Grandson
Mother's Name: Christina Richards
Gender: Male
Where born: Bassaleg, Monmouthshire, Wales

Civil parish: Rogerstone
County/Island: Monmouthshire
Country: Wales

Street Address: View image
Condition as to marriage: View image
Education: View image
Employment status: View image
Occupation: View image

Registration district: Newport
Sub-registration district: St Woollos
ED, institution, or vessel: 7
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 4379
Folio: 83
Page Number: 25
Household Members: Name Age
Mary Evans 72
Wm Richards 28
Christina Richards 29
Henry Wm Richards 5
Herbert Richards 3
Edith May Richards 6/12

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1891 census for the 1886 birth

Name: Herbert Richards
Age: 5
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1886
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Thomas Richards
Mother's Name: Sarah Richards
Gender: Male
Where born: Newport, Monmouthshire, Wales

Civil parish: St Woollos
Ecclesiastical parish: St Paul
Town: Newport
County/Island: Monmouthshire
Country: Wales

Street Address: View image
Condition as to marriage: View image
Education: View image
Employment status: View image
Occupation: View image

Registration district: Newport
Sub-registration district: Newport
ED, institution, or vessel: 13
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 4373
Folio: 22
Page Number: 38
Household Members: Name Age
Thomas Richards 42
Sarah Richards 39
Thomas W Richards 16
William H Richards 13
James Richards 11
Richard Richards 9
John Richards 7
Herbert Richards 5
Charley Richards 2
Ann Richards 80


The matching Page number is sheer coincidence................the Volume number doesn't change

Neither of these is your relation

Can I ask/advise you to stop fixating on the father's name from the marriage cert................as I mentioned much earlier, 'deceased' fathers didn't always actually exist..........they could be a convenient cover for illegitimacy.

Here is an additional piece of information.
The marriage certificate 1912 Qtr S Cardiff Vol11a page 606 of Herbert Seth Richards and Florence Edith Buckland gives their respective fathers as "Herbert Richards deceased Engineer and James Albert Buckland Master Mariner.
We are advised that one of these fathers died at sea but we don't know which one.
How do we check on deaths at Sea ? Can anyone advise ?

Thanks Victor

Re Herbert Seth Richards born c 1887
Grandfather Born c!832. You are correct he was Seth Richards age 49 in 1881 and was 59 in 1891 when his grandson Herbert Seth was 4years old and living with his grand parents Seth and Elizabeth both aged 59.
the grand parents also had a daughter Elizabeth Barbara who was born 24th May 1864 in Newport M Vol 11a page 186

In the Births records looking for Herbert Seth Richards c1887 we have found the same reference 1886 first qtr Newport Vol 11a page 209 and in
1888 first qtr Newport M Vol 11a page209.
Can we have the same reference for two different years of birth or are these two different births for two different Herbert Richards?
We have the 1886 birth cert but its not ourHerbert Richards with stated father who is also a Herbert Richards (Engineer per Marriage cert)
If I apply for the 1888 birth cert will I get the same wrong one again?
Can anyone help here?
Regards Victor

Presume |Grandfather in 1881 then

RICHARDS, Seth Head Married M 47 1834 Shoemaker
Pontypool
Monmouthshire
Piece:
5261 Folio:
105 Page:
38 Registration District:
Newport

Civil Parish:
Newport Municipal Borough:
Address:
1, Union Street, Newport County:
Monmouthshire

Reference Herbert Seth Richards born c1887.

Thanks to Flick and the other contributors for their valuable inputs
.
We still have not located H S Richards birth certificate so that we can identify his parents.

Here is where we stand:- Herbert S Richards links through the following
1891 age 4 living with grand father Seth Richards age 59 (shoemaker) & grandmother Elizabeth Richards(nee Jones) age 59.In Newport North Ward Parish St Woollos
1901 age 14 Living with same grandparents age 69 living in the same Parish.
1911 age 24 living as Boarder (Shop assistant Boot trade) with Gearing family (mother & two daughters)
!912 4th August Herbert Seth Richards Married Florence Edith Buckland
Certificate confirmed he was Age 25 and was Boot shop Manager.
His father was stated to be Herbert Richards (Deceased) Engineer.

Herbert Seth(shown asa Teth in error) Richards is in WW1 British Army service records est Birth 1887 age at enlistment 28 in year 1915. regiment Army Service Corps(MT) trade Boot shop Manager.

All of the above fits together with the Richards connected to our family but we still have the problem of locating the Birth certificateand identifying the mother and father of Herbert Seth Richards born c 1887.

The Death Cert found by Flick and Joan for Herbert Seth Richards age 86 Oct Qtr 1973 Mid Glamorgan Vol 8b Page 261 looks good and I will apply for this.
Regards
Victor

Trying to knock the dec'd fathers off...

Deaths Jun 1913 <<too late , thats after the marriage
Richards Herbert 30 Cardiff 11a 310


Deaths Mar 1872 <<too early.
RICHARDS Herbert Lewis 40 Monmouth 11a 27

anyone of the same name in Monmouthshire that died between those two was a juvenille

My PM.....

Thanks I Have Marriage cert and I have him in 1911 census.
Place of birth Monmouthshire Newport.
Stated father on marriage cert is Herbert Richards deceased Engineer

Some acknowledgment of all the effort put in on your behalf would be a good idea.

It was also incredibly thoughtless of you not to say at the outset that you had ALL the census info!

'Deceased' fathers often didn't exist

We have Herbert S Richards Born c1887 in Census 1891, 1901 and 1911 .
His place of birth stated to be Cardiff in Census 1891 & 1901 but Monmouthshire Newport in Census 1911.
Address in 1911 was 71 Duke Street Cathays Cardiff in 1911
We have marriage certificate of 4th August 1912. his father was a Herbert Richards (deceased) engineer.

Regards Victor

this dad is a truck repairer ?


1901 Wales Census about Herbert Richards
Name: Herbert Richards
Age in 1901: 13
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1888
Relation: Son
Father's Name: William Richards
Mother's Name: Christina Richards
Gender: Male
Where born: Rogerstone, Monmouthshire, Wales
Civil parish: Rogerstone
Ecclesiastical parish: Bassaleg St Basil
County/Island: Monmouthshire
Country: Wales
Street Address: View image
Condition as to marriage: View image
Education: View image
Employment status: View image
Occupation: View image
Registration district: Newport (Monmouthshire)
Sub-registration district: Rogerstone
ED, institution, or vessel: 10
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 87
Piece: 4963
Folio: 146
Page Number: 19
Household Members:
Name Age
William Richards 38
Christina Richards 38
H William Richards 15
Herbert Richards 13
Edith M Richards 10
George Richards 8
Charles Richards 5
Hilda M Richards 2
Rosalind Richards 5 Months

View Original Image



just as a matter of interest were either of the witnesses Richards ?

I'm beginning to suspect that his mother and father weren't married............

And 1901

Name: Herbert Richards
Age: 4
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1887
Relation: Grandson
Gender: Male
Where born: Cardiff, Glamorgan, Wales

Civil parish: Newport
Ecclesiastical parish: St Woollos
Town: Newport
County/Island: Monmouthshire
Country: Wales


Registration district: Newport
Sub-registration district: Newport
ED, institution, or vessel: 5
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 4371
Folio: 117
Page Number: 27
Household Members: Name Age
Seth Richards 56
Elizabeth Richards 56
Herbert Richards 4
Eliza Williams 55

Oh, well, that blows my George and Athaliah out of the water!!! :-(

Looks promising.........1901

Name: Herbert Richards
Age in 1901: 14
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1887
Relation: Grandson
Gender: Male
Where born: Cardiff, Glamorgan, Wales

Civil parish: Newport
Ecclesiastical parish: St Woollos
County/Island: Monmouthshire
Country: Wales

Registration district: Newport (Monmouthshire)
Sub-registration district: Newport
ED, institution, or vessel: 17
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 238
Piece: 4957
Folio: 151
Page Number: 45
Household Members: Name Age
Seth Richards 69
Eliz Richards 69
Herbert Richards 14
William Brown 48

pm says father William dec. engineer

good suggestion Flick matches shop manager ?

Suggestion ONLY

1911 census - household transcription
Person: RICHARDS, Herbert S
Address: 71 Tewkesbury St Cathays Cardiff


GEARING, Catherine I Head Married F 47 1864 Hampshire Whichester VIEW
GEARING, Gertrude Daughter Single F 19 1892 Dressmaker Glamorgan Cardiff VIEW
GEARING, Hilda M Daughter Single F 18 1893 General Servant Domestic Glamorgan Cardiff VIEW
RICHARDS, Herbert S Boarder Single M 24 1887 Shop Assistant Monmouthshire Newport VIEW

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RG number:
RG14 Piece:
32105 Reference:
RG14PN32105 RG78PN1846 RD588 SD3 ED6 SN105

Registration District:
Cardiff Sub District:
Central Cardiff Enumeration District:
6 Parish:
Cardiff