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Just for the heck of it-this is the Mary Elizabeth who ends up in Horsham as Garman. She does have a sister Anne.

1881 census transcription details for: 27, Lime St, Sutton St Mary
RG number: RG11 Piece: 3208 Folio: 53 Page: 41

Reg. District: Holbeach Sub District: Long Sutton
DOUCH, Harry Head Married M 27 1854 Groom (Dom)
Sutton Bridge
Lincolnshire
DOUCH, Rosamond Wife Married F 26 1855
Walpole
Norfolk
DOUCH, Anne Daughter Single F 7 1874 Scholar
Sutton Bdge
Lincolnshire
>>>DOUCH, Mary E Daughter Single F 1 1880
Sutton Bdge
Lincolnshire


Think I'll stop now.

Maureen

She seems to have it-knows the father's name at any rate.

What's driving me crazy is that there aren't that many Douch doings in Horsham but there's this one:
Marriages Sep 1911
Douch Rosie I Horsham 2b 711

Collins Harold V Horsham 2b 711

I'm wondering if that's Rosina Lydia???

And a few births for what looks like this couple:
Marriages Jun 1907
DOUCH Mary Elizabeth Reigate 2a 422
GARMAN Edward Reigate 2a 422

Strange.

Maureen

Well I would say that the Alice she is thinking is 'hers' on 1881 is most certainly the one who started off as a Gore and therefore NOT the one she needs.

SO - we really need Lorraine to come back with further info as I am sure that her Annie/Alice is not the same one !!!

I wonder if she has that marriage cert ?

Dea x

OK-for some reason I think we're looking at this marriage:
Marriages Sep 1916
Douch Annie Light Horsham 2b 643
Light Henry Douch Horsham 2b 643

Lorraine said something about Alice known as Annie later on,etc. married 1916,lied about her age....

Obviously not the one we're looking at then.as she married as Alice Florence Gore (although the cert was later changed to read Alice Flora.).



:-S :-S :-S

Maureen

This is Thomas Snr.'s death then:

Deaths Mar 1873
Gore Thomas James 29 Lambeth 1d 275

I wonder if he got to see his new little daughter Alice ?

SO sad !

Dea x

Gottem !!!!!

1871 England Census
about Thomas Gerr Name: Thomas Gerr
Age: 5 Months
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1870
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Thomas Gerr
Mother's name: Mary Ann Gerr
Gender: Male
Where born: Walworth, Surrey, England
Civil parish: Lambeth
Ecclesiastical parish: Lambeth St Mary
County/Island: London
Country: England
Registration district: Lambeth
Sub-registration district: Lambeth Church Second
ED, institution, or vessel: 10
Household schedule number: 197
Piece: 664
Folio: 92
Page Number: 34
Household Members: Name Age
Thomas Gerr 27
Mary Ann Gerr 24
Mary Ann Gerr 3
Thomas Gerr 5 Months

at 2 Richmond St. !


Source Citation: Class: RG10; Piece: 664; Folio: 92; Page: 34; GSU roll: 823322.

Dea Xxx - Now for a cup of tea ;-)

Thank you Maureen. - My head is 'whirring' :-0

I am sure she was after Alice but the other one was confusing matters !!! - And WHY are there SO many Mary Ann's among this lot ???

I wish I could find the Gore family on 1871 - Thomas will still be alive as they didn't have Alice until c 1873, but they did have another child born before 1871:


London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906
about Thomas Norman Gore Name: Thomas Norman Gore
Record Type: Baptism
Estimated Birth Date: abt 1870
Baptism Date: 27 Nov 1870
Father's Name: Thomas James Gore - French Polisher
Mother's name: Mary Ann Gore
Parish or Poor Law Union: Walworth St John the Evangelist
Borough: Southwark
Register Type: Parish Registers

Address - 2 ? Richmond St.

Looks like he died in 1872 so he should be on 1871 census with his family?

Deaths Sep 1872
GORE Thomas Norman 1 Lambeth 1d 247

Dea x

Oh,Dea-you are sooo clever!

I don't know who we're supposed to be checking anymore! :-S

Maureen <3

Could this be 'your' Alice ????? :-0

London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906
about Alice Flora Gore Name: Alice Flora Gore
Record Type: Baptism
Estimated Birth Date: abt 1873
Baptism Date: 13 Apr 1873
Father's Name: Thomas Gore
Mother's name: Mary Ann Gore
Parish or Poor Law Union: Walworth St John the Evangelist
Borough: Southwark
Register Type: Parish Registers

I am just going to check further!!.......................

Dea Xxx

:-D :-D

Well - This is turning into an even deeper mystery !!! - Please bear with me as I am working to sort it all out !! :-S

John Douch WAS married twice - both times to a Mary Ann !!! - Not the one we started off with though !

I think the first one you have as Mary Ann Russell is correct but then she changes between 1871 and 1881 because he then married Mary Ann Gore in 1875 !!

London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921
about John Douch
Name: John Douch - Bricklayer.
Age: Full Age
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1875
Spouse Name: Mary Ann Gore
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 1 Aug 1875
Parish: Walworth St John the Evangelist
Borough: Southwark
Father Name: John Douch - Bricklayer
Spouse Father Name: Robert Gore XXX - Image says Robert BEST - Chairmaker !!
Register Type: Parish Register

Both bride and groom had been widowed!
His address 3 Barlow Flush ???
Her's - 6 Osborne Hill

Witnesses : J Walker ?? + Hannah Walker.

I had been tracing him back because on 1911 it says that they had had 6 children - 5 still living and one had died.
I had found a lot more than 6 children and so was curious !

Also, it said they had been married 56 years (which was wrong!!) - the image said 36 - the Gore marriage fitted!

I had also found that on 1891, living next door was Joseph Douch, their son, now married, and living with them another couple, Simon Rowe and his wife Mary A (YES - ANOTHER ONE !!!)

Following this through, I found:

Marriages Dec 1889
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

GORE Mary Ann E Camberwell 1d 1367 *****
LAKIN Caroline Nancy Camberwell 1d 1367
Mannering Geoffrey Camberwell 1d 1367
MANNERING George Camberwell 1d 1367
Rowe Simon Camberwell 1d 1367 **********

It all links up...........

Dea x

P.S. - Can someone bring me back to reality and tell me who we actually want to find - Is it Alice?

This does give us a few more options for her name??

Will sort my notes and come back in a while.

Dea x

Who did your Alice marry??

Maureen

Lydia's baptism (as a Douch) !! ???

London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906
about Rosina Lydia Douch Name: Rosina Lydia Douch
Record Type: Baptism
Estimated Birth Date: abt 1877
Baptism Date: 26 Jan 1877
Father's Name: John Douch
Mother's name: Mary Ann Douch
Parish or Poor Law Union: Walworth St John the Evangelist
Borough: Southwark
Register Type: Parish Registers


No date of birth given but she was probably born before this as 3 of them were done in a 'job lot'!!

Elizabeth Matilda
John William

done at the same time.

Father bricklayer
Address 33 Sunray ? Sumary? , Summary? Road.

Dea x

Possible ???

Deaths Mar 1885 (>99%)
SCHRODER Thomas 40 Camberwell 1d 591

Thomas + Mary Ann are still together on 1881:

1881 England Census
about Thomas Schoder Name: Thomas Schoder
Age: 38
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1843
Relation: Lodger (Head) (Lodger)
Spouse's Name: Mary Ann Schoder
Gender: Male
Where born: Whitechapel, Middlesex, England

Civil parish: Camberwell
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street Address: 80 Camden Grove N
Condition as to marriage: Married
Education:

Employment status: View image
Occupation: Bricklayers Laborer

Registration district: Camberwell
Sub-registration district: St George
ED, institution, or vessel: 19
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 697
Folio: 101
Page Number: 39
Household Members: Name Age
Henry Jones 30
Eliza Jones 32
Arthur Jones 10
Eliza Jones 8
Ellen Jones 3
Wm. Mc Call 22

Thomas Schoder 38
Mary Ann Schoder 36
John Schroder 5
Thomas Schroder 1


Source Citation: Class: RG11; Piece: 697; Folio: 101; Page: 39; GSU roll: 1341162.

Dea x

glanammanhousewifels - between us, we've found the marriage of Mary Ann Douch to Thomas Schroder...they are listed above but copied below

Marriages Dec 1866
DOUCH Mary A Camberwell 1d 942
SCHRODER Thomas Camberwell 1d 942

Mary Ann Donel
[Mary Ann Donch]
Spouse Name: Thomas Schroder - fireman
Spouse Age: Full Age
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 25 Dec 1866
Parish: Camberwell St George
Borough: Southwark
Father Name: John Donel (Douch) - builder
Spouse Father Name: Thomas Schroder - deceased
Register Type: Parish Register

Address, George St

EDIT - on the 1868 marriage previously posted, (John to Mary Russell) the address given is also George Street.

This is all of them on the 1871 from Ancestry:

1871 England Census
about John Donch Name: John Donch
Age: 46
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1825
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Elizabeth Donch
[Mary A Donch]
Gender: Male
Where born: Newington, Surrey, England
Civil parish: Camberwell
Ecclesiastical parish: Camden
Town: Peckham
County/Island: Surrey
Country: England
Registration district: Camberwell
Sub-registration district: Peckham
ED, institution, or vessel: 7
Household schedule number: 64
Piece: 731
Folio: 38
Page Number: 12
Household Members: Name Age
John Donch 46
Elizabeth Donch 46

John Donch 23
Mary A Donch 21
Joseph Donch 2
John Donch 1

Thomas Schroder 27
Mary A Schroder 25
Lydia Schroder 6
Alice Schroder 4

Source Citation: Class: RG10; Piece: 731; Folio: 38; Page: 12; GSU roll: 823353.

Dea x

Looking at the 1871 image, there are 2 x John Douch.

The head is John age 46 married to ELIZABETH age 46

Lodger John age 23 married to MARY A age 21.
Their children
Joseph 2
John 1

The other lodgers being
Thomas Shroder
Mary A - wife
Lydia - daughter
Alice - daughter.

So it is probable that the Elizabeth Douch death in 1897 does not apply to this family unit

if john and mary are indeed brother and sister why would they list as husband and wife in the 1881 census ?????? or could that be a mistake on the census record and no wonder so many people are confused as i have several people who match my tree who think the childrens parents are john douch and mary ann when they are siblings lol oh deer ! but it would make sence if they were siblings in 1871 and she (mary a ) moved her husband and family in with her brother i know the surname douch made several spelling changes over the years
thank you so much for all this help i will try and find the marriage record for mary a to thomas and order that and see what we get
thank you again :-D

Ahhh - I think I see the confusion... (or at least 'my' confusion !! :-D)

On the 1871 there is a John Douch c 1825 and his wife Elizabeth.

Same house but marked as lodgers are John Douch (c 48) and his wife Mary A + 2 children (details already posted)

Another set of Lodgers underneath are Thomas Schroder, his wife Mary A + children (Details posted above.)

It is the older John who was married to Elizabeth (presumably the parents of John and the other Mary A (now married to Thomas) ???

I think !!!!!!!!!!!
:-D :-D

Dea x

hi
i cant copy and paste as it wont let me
just open the achuall census of 1871 with john douch b1848 camberwell and you will see that thomas sehlodu aged 27 lab and wife mary a aged 25 and children alice 4 lydia 6 are living with them listed as lodgers
on the household record of 1871 with john douch they are not listed it was only when i opened the achuall record up i found them and then 10 years later john is living with mary a insted of his wife elizabeth from 1871 census and i have tried and failed to find thomas and his child lydia cant find death records or anything but did find the death record for john douch wife elizabeth in 1879 camberwell 1d 573 elizabeth douch aged 55
its so annoying as i think alice is my great gran although she lied about her age later on !
many thanks lorraine