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If this is the right Philip Palfrey, the 1901 census doesn't fit with the 1883 marriage posted:

PALFREY, Phillip Head Married M 50 1851 General Labourer Canada
PALFREY, Sarah Ann Wife Married F 39 1862 Plymouth, Devonshire
PALFREY, Albert Son Single M 19 1882 General Labourer Bristol, Gloucestershire
PALFREY, Richard Son Single M 15 1886 General Labourer Bristol, Gloucestershire
PALFREY, Ernest Son Single M 12 1889 Bristol, Gloucestershire
PALFREY, Lilly Daughter Single F 6 1895 Cardiff, Glamorganshire
PALFREY, Ann Daughter Single F 5 1896 Cardiff, Glamorganshire
PALFREY, Maud Daughter Single F 2 1899 Cardiff, Glamorganshire
PALFREY, Maggie Daughter Single F 0 (UNDER 6 MOS)1901 Cardiff, Glamorganshire
HARDING, Ann Boarder Single F 64 1837 Ireland Dublin

Piece: 4987 Folio: 46 Page: 83
Registration District: Cardiff
Civil Parish: Canton

Address: 29, Lincoln Street, Canton County: Glamorganshire

This is the same family in 1911, but the birthplaces have gone to pot!

PALFREY, Phillip Head Married M 62 1849 General Labourer Almouth (Plymouth ??)
PALFREY, Sarah Wife Married 23 years F 45 1866
PALFREY, Albert Son Singel M 28 1883 General Labourer City Cardiff
PALFREY, Lilley Daughter Singel F 17 1894 City Cardiff
PALFREY, Amor Daughter Singel F 16 1895 City Cardiff
PALFREY, Maud Daughter Singel F 10 1901 City Cardiff
PALFREY, Madge Daughter Singel F 10 1901

RG number: RG14 Piece: 32149 Reference: RG14PN32149 RG78PN1847 RD588 SD4 ED17 SN370
Registration District: Cardiff
Sub District: West Cardiff
Enumeration District: 17
Parish: Cardiff

Address: 29 Lincoln ST County: Glamorganshire

** Sarah's birthplace on original is Bristol. Daughter "Amor" will be Ann.

They'd had 12 children, 9 still alive.

Hi MarieCeleste, Thank you for the update on the Army Career of Patrick, he seems to have been a colourful character! and thank you AnnCardiff for the marriage record.
all the best,
Julia.

On the 1891 Philip is showing as single, and is a lodger:

1891 England Census

Name: Phillip Palfrey
Age: 40
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1851
Relation: Boarder
Gender: Male
Where born: Upper, Canada
Civil parish: St Michael
Ecclesiastical parish: St Michael
Town: Bristol
County/Island: Gloucestershire
Country: England
Street Address: Park Row Lodge
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage: Single
Education:
Employment status:

Registration district: Bristol
Sub-registration district: St Augustine
ED, institution, or vessel: 5
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 1964
Folio: 90
Page Number: 5

Household Members:
Name Age
John Pearl 40
Sarah A Pearl 28
Albert Pearl 10
Richard Pearl 5
Frank Pearl 3
Ernest Pearl 1
Phillip Palfrey 40

I reckon Sarah A is who he's with on the later census, as are Albert & Richard. Their ages and birthplaces all tie in.

Hi MarieCeleste,
This looks like the right family although the wife is not one of the names I had, I see Richard Palfrey is listed as one of the children which is the
one I am interested in. I am almost certain this is correct.
Maybe Phillip married twice? The 1911 census is a bit of a jumble, I think maybe Plymouth has been written on the wrong line. It is definitely the same family isn't it. (married 23 years in 1911, marriage year 1898, the marriage date I had was 1883 Ipswich, I think I have that wrong or this was the first marriage).
Thank you
Julia.

Hi MarieCeleste,
The marriage of 1883 must be wrong,
Thank you.
Julia.

Julia, I think Philip may have put Plymouth as his birthplace as that is where he grew up (often happens).

My guess is that he and Sarah Ann never actually married. There's no record of it.

It's odd that Philip is shown as single on the 1891 - perhaps he tried it and didn't like it! Only way to be sure is to buy a copy of that 1883 certificate.

I'm guessing that the P in Richard P Palfrey may well have stood for Pearl.

Hi MarieCeleste,
I think you are right, maybe never married and so recorded as single.
Sarah maybe lived with her parents until she had so many chilodren that Phillip was taken to one side and told to find them somewhere to live!
Thank you for all your work on this family,
Julia.

Hi MarieCeleste,
Yes I agree, Richard P will be Richard Pearl,
all falls into place!
You have unravelled a mystery, this is fantastic!
Thanks so much.
Julia.

There does seem to be only one Philip Palfrey showing on the censuses.


My suggestion would be that that IS his marriage in 1883, but that the marriage broke down, and he took up with Sarah Ann Pearl.


Divorces were almost impossible for the ordinary person to get in those days ................. so he and Sarah would be unable to marry until after his first wife died



and maybe she did not before he himself died ............... or maybe he and Sarah were not bothered, as everyone would assume they were married.





sylvia

even though only one Phil* Palfrey b. 1851 +/- 2 showed up .......... there is this one.

AND this one is married to an Alice


AND they live in Ipswich!


1891 Census

Name: Phillip Palfrey
Age: 28
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1863
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Alice Palfrey
Gender: Male
Where born: Rougham, Suffolk, England

Civil parish: St Peter
Ecclesiastical parish: St Peter
Town: Ipswich
County/Island: Suffolk
Country: England

Registration district: Ipswich
Sub-registration district: Ipswich Western

Phillip Palfrey 28 Butcher
Alice Palfrey 30
Alfred S Capon 17 Boarder, Butcher's Apprentice




so I think this Philip is the one for whom you found the marriage registration



and maybe your Philip just had an aversion to marriage!!






sylvia

Hi Sylvia,
Thank you very much, another mystery solved!
It is looking likely that Phillip I am researching never married.
Regards,
Julia.

Julia



Do NOT assume that the Pearl children are Philip Palfrey's!


If you look at the image of the 1891 Census, the name is actually Peard ............ and someone has made corrections to the ancestry version to that effect.

Here is a probable marriage for John Peard and Sarah Ann in 1879


Marriages Jun 1879 (>99%)

LONG Sarah Ann Bristol 6a 1
PEARD John George Bristol 6a 1



Baptism of Albert Peard

England & Wales Christening Records, 1530-1906 about Albert Francis Peard

Name: Albert Francis Peard
Gender: Male
Birth Date: abt 1881
Christening Date: 10 Nov 1881
Christening Place: Bristol, Gloucestershire, England
Father's Name: John George Peard
Mother's name: Sarah Ann


England & Wales Christening Records, 1530-1906 about Richard Philip Peard

Name:
Richard Philip Peard
Gender: Male
Birth Date: abt 1885
Christening Date: 26 Nov 1885
Christening Place: Bristol, Gloucestershire, England
Father's Name: John Peard
Mother's name: Sarah


England & Wales Christening Records, 1530-1906 about Ernest Charles Peard

Name: Ernest Charles Peard
Gender: Male
Birth Date: abt 1890
Christening Date: Mar 1890
Christening Place: Bristol, Gloucestershire, England
Father's Name: John George Peard
Mother's name: Sarah Ann



can't find a baptism, but this is shown on a Public Family Tree on ancestry

Frank Peard
Birth 18 Feb 1888 in 69 College Street, Bristol



Other Peard children ................


England & Wales Christening Records, 1530-1906 about Henry John Peard

Name: Henry John Peard
Gender: Male
Birth Date: abt 1879
Christening Date: 28 Aug 1879
Christening Place: Bristol, Gloucestershire, England
Father's Name: John George Peard
Mother's name: Sarah Ann


Name: Mary Ann Peard
Gender: Female
Birth Date: abt 1891
Christening Date: 19 Jun 1891
Christening Place: Bristol, Gloucestershire, England
Father's Name: John Peard
Mother's name: Sarah Ann





My guess is that those children have nothing to do wt=ith Philip Palfrey.


I would guess that John Peard died before 1901, and Philip and Sarah took up together


OR that John or Sarah left the marriage, and Sarah took up with Philip.


You need to find a death certificate for John George Peard to be certain when he died.




I have to go out for the afternoon now, but I'll check back later tonight!





sylvia

Possible death for John Peard



Name: John Peard
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1843
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1901
Age at Death: 58
Registration district: Bristol
Inferred County: Gloucestershire
Volume: 6a
Page: 50 (click to see others on page)

I think that it is possible / probable that YOUR Philip Palfrey did not marry, but that he lived common-law with Sarah Ann Peard (nee Long).

There ae some children there that must have been born after John Peard died, and it is definitely YOUR Philip with Sarah on the 1911 ......... they probably told porkies about the length of their marriage


Actually, on the 1911, it is the length of marriage and number of children for the WIFE not the husband ......



.... so she didn't tell porkies, she was just with a different man!!




sylvia

Sylvia - thanks for such a concise wrap!

Hi Sylvia,
Thank you, I will look for the death of John Peard.
So Richard P Palfrey may be Palfrey in name only,
I suppose only Sarah would have the answer to that one.
The mystery deepens!
Regards
Julia.

Hi Sylvia and MarieCeleste,
The most likely death I can find is John Peard died 1901 Bristol age
58 years.

Reagrds
Julia.

MC ..............

................... thank you!



Julia ....................


Any children that were Sarah and John Peard's seem to have used hteir "step-father's" name after Philip and Sarah began living together.


There would have been no official adoption as legal adoptions did not exist before mid-1927.


Stepchildren vary in whether they kept their "own" name or used "step-father's" name .......... and some switched back and forth, almost at will!



In this case ................. Richard Philip Palfrey is indeed a Palfrey only in name as he is Sarah's son by a previous marriage. It looks as though he was comfortable enough with the name to have kept the name into later life.





sylvia

?????? Phillip's death


Deaths Dec 1923 (>99%)

PALFREY Phillip 71 Cardiff 11a 467




and Sarah's?????


Deaths Mar 1919 (>99%)

Palfrey Sarah A 51 Cardiff 11a 680





If I was doing the family tree, I would classify Richard P and his siblings as step-children of Phil(l)ip Palfrey




sylvia