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Back! Checked the Harold Graham death in 1927, aged 1. That appears to be the Harold Graham, born and died W. Derby.

The harold I'm researching was born Liverpool. Both in Lancs obviously.

If the marriage Pricklyholly found is the correct one, then we know that Martha's maiden name was Wood. Really need to get this birth cert. But will contact the Liverpool library as well, thanks for that suggestion. Regards Linda

Hi, West Derby is a suburb in Liverpool

If Martha's maiden name was wood...that is the name that should be on the birth cert....not Snape

I have given you a Graham/Snape marriage in Toxteth Park which is also a suburb of Liverpool four children born between 1915 and 1927....of course I could be wrong, but that is what I am suggesting, as a 47 year old married woman giving birth in Liverpool (using her married name instead of her maiden name) then dying 50 miles away does not sound quite right to me

Hi there, I totally agree that the maiden name of wood should be on the record, shown as Snape nee Wood, but as with some certs I have it is only on the record not on the registration? The marriage found in Toxteth is for a John, Harolds father was David? And I agree that 47 is too late to be having children, but there may be many (family, finance) reasons as to why she died 50 miles away. Lets wait for the birth cert and see what happens!! Hope it gets here soon!!!! Regards Linda

Sorry, meant to say certificate not record.

I personally do not think Martha Snape has anything to do with your Harold...nor the birth registered in June 1927...but lets hope I am wrong

Amazingly this family have never been able to find anything past Harold, beginning to understand why. There could just be a basic error in their names and dates, which would explain a lot!! Just wish I could find (right now!), a definitive birth for Harold. It is so odd that the only "Martha" we can find, possibly related to a Harold, seems to be this one :)

Have you found a birth for Barbara?

Graham seems to be quite a common name in Ireland...could he have been born there, then moved to Liverpool?

I have just got back from freebmd, where the only marriage that matches a birth(!!!) is for a HAROLD Graham and a MARY H Brocklebank, married June 1935, daughter barbara born March 1936 in Barrow F. I'm really starting to think that my friend has just got some basic errors in names etc. His father having emigrated here in 1950/1, never having known his mum, etc etc etc.

Graham seems to be a pretty common name in Lancs as well!! No links with Ireland, that I know off as yet!!

Looking at that marriage they had a few children....again almost 100 miles from Liverpool

I think Harolds marriage cert is needed at least he may have given the correct parents and birth place

You friend really needs to start with what she categorically knows to be true, what ever that is.

How is she related to these people?

Harold (1927) is her father, so his DOB is the only fact she has, and that of course is not easy to verify. David and Martha are her grandparents, then a step grandmother and half sister barbara to her father Harold. As to Harolds marriage cert, I know he married Frances Lottie Austin, where and when unknown, may have been in Aus after he emigrated. Frances born 22/7/1926 d 1995, aus. Ok off to try and find that!!! Regards Linda

Am i understanding this right
Harold married 3 times?
to your friends mother
To barbara's mother and was married to Frances - or is frances your friends mother?

When did he emmigrate?

This is Harold going to Oz

passenger transcript details
Name: Harold GRAHAM
Date of departure: 7 August 1951
Port of departure: Glasgow
Passenger destination port: Sydney, Australia
Passenger destination: Sydney, Australia

Date of Birth: 1927 (calculated from age)
Age: 24
Marital status:
Sex: Male
Occupation: Clerk
Passenger recorded on: Page 13 of 35

Harold married Frances in Oz

His parents are meant to be David and Martha...Martha died and David remarried and had another child called barbara

Thanks Jax. My brain won't do the sums at the mo, but I'm going to check freebmd once more then give it a rest for the night. Ancestry is down at the mo' it seems. Regards Linda

???? too far fetched??

Marriages Dec 1882

Brown Martha W. Derby 8b 686
Graham David W Derby 8b 686
HUGHES John W. Derby 8b 686
SHAW Jane W.Derby 8b 686

that David married jane Shaw

Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1882
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
GRAHAM David SHAW Jane Everton, St. George Liverpool 2018WD/11/64

Oh this is like drawing teeth! Harold Graham and Frances Austin apparently married in Qld c 1952/3. I have copies of both of their death certs, and they of course show nothing, besides what my friend believes to be true. Waiting, waiting, waiting!! Regards Linda

have you applied for Harold's marriage certificate Linda so guarantee his father's name?

Did Martha die in England as I can't find what seems to be any appropriate death up to 1934 apart from 1923

Hi ann, have only just been given the details re the marriage, so not ordered the cert as yet. The only martha death that I can find that may seem to fit is the one as discussed in previous posts. But until I get Harolds birth cert, it's all guesswork!!! And it may turn out to be the wrong one!!! Thanks for your interest, Linda :)