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Thanks Jax. My brain won't do the sums at the mo, but I'm going to check freebmd once more then give it a rest for the night. Ancestry is down at the mo' it seems. Regards Linda

This is Harold going to Oz

passenger transcript details
Name: Harold GRAHAM
Date of departure: 7 August 1951
Port of departure: Glasgow
Passenger destination port: Sydney, Australia
Passenger destination: Sydney, Australia

Date of Birth: 1927 (calculated from age)
Age: 24
Marital status:
Sex: Male
Occupation: Clerk
Passenger recorded on: Page 13 of 35

Harold married Frances in Oz

His parents are meant to be David and Martha...Martha died and David remarried and had another child called barbara

Am i understanding this right
Harold married 3 times?
to your friends mother
To barbara's mother and was married to Frances - or is frances your friends mother?

When did he emmigrate?

Harold (1927) is her father, so his DOB is the only fact she has, and that of course is not easy to verify. David and Martha are her grandparents, then a step grandmother and half sister barbara to her father Harold. As to Harolds marriage cert, I know he married Frances Lottie Austin, where and when unknown, may have been in Aus after he emigrated. Frances born 22/7/1926 d 1995, aus. Ok off to try and find that!!! Regards Linda

You friend really needs to start with what she categorically knows to be true, what ever that is.

How is she related to these people?

Looking at that marriage they had a few children....again almost 100 miles from Liverpool

I think Harolds marriage cert is needed at least he may have given the correct parents and birth place

I have just got back from freebmd, where the only marriage that matches a birth(!!!) is for a HAROLD Graham and a MARY H Brocklebank, married June 1935, daughter barbara born March 1936 in Barrow F. I'm really starting to think that my friend has just got some basic errors in names etc. His father having emigrated here in 1950/1, never having known his mum, etc etc etc.

Graham seems to be a pretty common name in Lancs as well!! No links with Ireland, that I know off as yet!!

Have you found a birth for Barbara?

Graham seems to be quite a common name in Ireland...could he have been born there, then moved to Liverpool?

Amazingly this family have never been able to find anything past Harold, beginning to understand why. There could just be a basic error in their names and dates, which would explain a lot!! Just wish I could find (right now!), a definitive birth for Harold. It is so odd that the only "Martha" we can find, possibly related to a Harold, seems to be this one :)

I personally do not think Martha Snape has anything to do with your Harold...nor the birth registered in June 1927...but lets hope I am wrong

Sorry, meant to say certificate not record.

Hi there, I totally agree that the maiden name of wood should be on the record, shown as Snape nee Wood, but as with some certs I have it is only on the record not on the registration? The marriage found in Toxteth is for a John, Harolds father was David? And I agree that 47 is too late to be having children, but there may be many (family, finance) reasons as to why she died 50 miles away. Lets wait for the birth cert and see what happens!! Hope it gets here soon!!!! Regards Linda

If Martha's maiden name was wood...that is the name that should be on the birth cert....not Snape

I have given you a Graham/Snape marriage in Toxteth Park which is also a suburb of Liverpool four children born between 1915 and 1927....of course I could be wrong, but that is what I am suggesting, as a 47 year old married woman giving birth in Liverpool (using her married name instead of her maiden name) then dying 50 miles away does not sound quite right to me

Hi, West Derby is a suburb in Liverpool

Back! Checked the Harold Graham death in 1927, aged 1. That appears to be the Harold Graham, born and died W. Derby.

The harold I'm researching was born Liverpool. Both in Lancs obviously.

If the marriage Pricklyholly found is the correct one, then we know that Martha's maiden name was Wood. Really need to get this birth cert. But will contact the Liverpool library as well, thanks for that suggestion. Regards Linda

Hi guys, not timing this very well, just got home from work, 11.45pm!! Have just scanned the latest posts, so shall read them properly now, and post again shortly!! regards Linda

This could be the Graham/Snape marriage two children in Toxteth park and two in Liverpool

Liverpool, Lancashire, England, Marriages and Banns, 1813-1921
about Mary Elizabeth Snape
Name: Mary Elizabeth Snape
Birth Year: abt 1890
Age: 23
Marriage Date: 27 Apr 1913
Parish: Toxteth St Matthew
Spouse's Name: John Graham
Father's Name: William Snape
Spouse Father's Name: Joseph Graham

The Harold Graham who went to Australia in 1951 gave an address as 12 Beechbank Road Liverpool...he was a clerk

It might be worth trying to contact the main Libarary in Liverpool to see who was living at that address in 1951

Martha Snape was a married woman so Snape was not her maiden name.

She also died in Clitheroe which is where she was living in 1911 (near Burnley) Harold was born Liverpool 50 miles away...she was also 47 not impossable but maybe a bit to old to be his mother??

Also that birth for a Harold in 1926 in West Derby...think he died in 1927

I am not saying this birth is not him, but it is possable that it belongs to the man who married in the UK in 1951.

As for date of births our family always thought that my grandfather was born in 1900. He married in 1929 age 29 on the cert., we dont think my gran knew any different...they died together so could never ask her.....I found out when starting my tree and could not find a birth cert for him that he was born 1897 correct birthday just wrong year....dont know why he lied but he did

Hi Jax, if it's not his birthday then he and his son have been celebrating it incorrectly for the past 50 years, possible I suppose. My understanding is that in some circumstances births were registered later than allowed, and if we're on the right track and martha's death notice in the same qtr would possibly explain the family being a bit tardy. Harold did emigrate to aus in 1950/51 and as far as I know married in Aus. He was in the english military from approx 1945 - 49, and I thought I might try and go down that path next? Regards Linda