Find Ancestors

Patchem

Sorry. I have no idea! I should say that I was evacuated for the period of the war and six months after that. I returned at 11 and left home to join the RAF at 15 so my time spent with my mother was very limited.

Gary

Re the Page births at sea 1893 and 1895, the one in 1893 was female:


Overseas registration event: Birth


Name: PAGE, Female (unnamed)
Mother's maiden name: Not available before 1966
Vessel: Orari
Country: At sea
Year: 1893
Page: 9
Record source: GRO Marine Births Indices (1837 to 1965)

Registration event: birth


Name: PAGE
Date of birth: April 1895
Date reported: 1895
Father's name:
Mother's name:
Mother's maiden name:
Ship's name: Orari
Series: BT334 - Registers and Indexes of Births, Marriages and Deaths of Passengers and Seamen at Sea
Box: 0011
Page:


No births listed in British India Office Births & Baptisms 1712-1965

None of the 43 Page births recorded in india in the 10 years either side of 1890 had a father named Henry.

Hi Kucinto,

Many thanks for that useful information. As soon as I can get a spell of good weather I think a visit to the British Library is on the cards.

Everyone has been very helpful.

Gary

Have you spoken to as many of her children as are still alive to see if they have any extra knowledge of her and her history and her parents?

Sorry if this sounds obvious,but some people do not think the obvious.

Hi Patcham,

I have three sisters one of whom has died and who before she died told me about the Indian link. My oldest sister has no knowledge of where our Mother was born and my younger sister is no longer in touch with the family.

The five children of her first marriage are a problem as three of them seem to have been adopted. The other two retained their birth name, went on to marry and have children of their own. I am in touch with the son of one of these half sisters and they are also trying to track Georgina down! In fact we made contact via Genes Reunited.

She is out there somewhere - as she does not show up in the 1901 and 1911 Census she might be in the 1921 Census. I just hope I last to 2021 at which point I will be 86!!

Gary

The birth i posted in lambeth my be worth a punt? unless you know something not mentioned on this thread, Your reply was simply "Unfortunately, Lilian Georgina born Mar 1899 Lambeth is not her"

Which tells us nothing as to why its not her.

Edit; Do you not find it odd that both Lilian Georgina Page and your Georgina Lilian Page both appear to be missing from the 1901 and 1911 census?


Roy

Hi Roy,

Sorry I should have made myself clear. I had the same thought some time ago and sent off for the Certificate which showed that Lilian Georgina born in Lambeth 29th December 1898 registered 3 January 1899 had no father named. Whereas Georgina has her fatgher named as Henry Page on two marriage certificates. Henry is shown as being an Interpreter on her second marriage certificate which to me adds credence to his connection with the Indian Army. Having told myself they were not one and the same lady, I did not check on Lilian being in the Census returns.

Gary

More for elimination purposes than anything else:

British India Office Ecclesiastical Returns - Deaths & Burials Transcription

First Name Henry
Last Name Page
Date of Death 10 Mar 1899
Date Of burial 11 Mar 1899
Year Of Birth 1867
Age 32
Place Madras,St Mary
Presidency Madras
Archive Reference N-2-85
Folio -
Page 23
Catalogue Description Parish register transcripts from the Presidency of Madras, : 1698-1948

Colour Sergeant 1st Royal Warwick Regt. Enteric fever.


First Name Henry
Last Name Page
Date of Death 05 Sep 1902
Date Of burial 06 Sep 1902
Year Of Birth 1869
Age 33
Place Meean Meer
Presidency Bengal
Archive Reference N-1-302
Folio -
Page 140
Catalogue Description Parish register transcripts from the Presidency of Bengal, : 1713-1948

Driver 54 Batt R F A Heat stroke.

First Name Henry
Last Name Page
Date of Death 25 Jun 1902
Date Of burial 26 Jun 1902
Year Of Birth 1878
Age 24
Place Belgaum
Presidency Bombay
Archive Reference N-3-87
Folio -
Page 247
Catalogue Description Parish register transcripts from the Presidency of Bombay, 1709-1948, :

no 1841 Gunner 35th Battery Royal Field Artillery. Valvular disease of the heart.

this one would be too young anyway

First Name Harry Francis
Last Name Page
Date of Death 25 Sep 1916
Date Of burial 25 Sep 1916
Year Of Birth 1888
Age 28
Place Sewree
Presidency Bombay
Archive Reference N-3-116
Folio -
Page 121
Catalogue Description Parish register transcripts from the Presidency of Bombay, 1709-1948, :

Pirvate 2 R W Kents No 8565 Dysentry.

Do bear in mind brides who had no father sometimes made one up to save face - perhaps loosely based on the details of a stepfather or grandfather.

Hi Gary,

Have you had an Electoral Roll search done for the area of the 1919 marriage? Was there an address on the marriage certificate, if so it maybe something to look into.

Added; also who were the witnesses to both marriages?

I still would not totally dismiss the birth,

I'm sure your aware that illigitimate children have been known to invent a father on marriage certs, and going from a Electrical Engineer to an Interpreter is also a bit odd, Electrical Engineers where much sort after back then so why the change in career?

Family folklore also has to be questioned, Often it starts out based on a truth but becomes a mix of truth and myth over time

Just checked and there are some marriages that fit for a Lilian G Page


Roy

Kucinta

Many thanks for all your hard work. As Georgina showed her father to be Henry Page on her marriage cert on the 28 May 1919 (Register office Leighton Buzzard) I have assumed that was his name and that he was alive as he is not shown as Deceased. Same applied when she married a second time on the 2nd June 1928. For her first marriage her residence was given as The Grange, Ivinghoe and she was shown as being a Land worker. Some years ago I contacted the Grange to find out if they had any old records but they did not. Witnesses for this wedding were W C Bergman and E E Gregory. When she married my father on the 2nd June 1928 he again is not shown as being deceased. Witnesses for this wedding were Willie Squires and John James Metcalfe. She is shown as living at Hipswell (nothing else) in Yorkshire and was a Spinster.

Therefore all these deaths predate the weddings. Many thanks

Gary

Batmansdaughter

Hi, yes I have I went to the Bucks record Office and looked at the orinial books for any sign of a family called Page. Nothing. Pitsone, near Ivinghoe was where her first husband came from. See above for details of witnesses and addresses.

Gary

Hi Roy,

I take your point about family folklore and over the years of searching I have always taken this into account. As for marriages I have the certs for both her marriages and she is shown as Georgina Lilian on both. it is possible he might have been an electrical engineer and later could have made use of using a language he might have learnt in India? Very frustrating!!

Gary

There were no later deaths than the ones I posted for a Henry Page in:

British India Office Deaths & Burials 1709-1965.

Obviously he may not have died in India, I was just exploring that avenue.

Also bear in mind ( not in relation to the India deaths posted above, but in general) deceased parents weren't always recorded as such on marriage certs - a lot depended on how the registrar asked the questions....

Also if the bride were supplying the details of a father who may have been for whatever reason absent or largely absent from her life, then her recollection of his occupation may be hazy or based on family hearsay.

If she claims she is a spinster on the 1928 wedding, then she is not telling the truth,so could also be inventing that father.
Do you know what happened to the first husband?

Added:
Is this his death?
Francis W Elliott
Birth Date: abt 1897
Date of Registration: Mar 1928
Age at Death: 31
Registration district: Medway
Inferred County: Kent
Volume: 2a
Page: 1086

Francis W T Elliott, 1923, is in 3 trees on here - have you tried to contact those owners?

But she married for the second time under the surname of her first husband - Elliott,so did she still put the name of her father as Henry Page whilst claiming to be a spinster?

From Gary's OP he said,

"She was married twice and Henry's profession was listed on one marriage certificate as an Electrical Engineer and the other, Interpreter"

Which i take to mean Yes Henry Page is named as her father on both certs

Roy

Kucinta, Patchem and Roy,

Oh dear! What confusion a slip of the fingers on the keyboard can cause! Let me sum up. Georgina's first husband Francis William Elliott died in Feb 1928 as shown by Patchem above. She then married my father Walter Donald Mitchell in June 1928 (no time wasted there!) I think it was at this stage that her five children from her marriage to Francis were put into care/adopted. I have made contact with the son of the youngest of these five children and we are working together to see if we can find out anything in his background which might help. On her second marriage certificate she is shown as a widow not spinster. Sorry my mistake.
I note from the latest copy of Family Tree that Find my Past have launched a whole series of records from the British Library covering 200 years of the British in India.

Thank you all for trying to help me out.

Gary

If she WAS actually born en route to the UK from India, there should be a record of the family's entry into the UK..................Ancestry have such records

It was the FMP British Library India records that I was using.