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1851 census

Person: OSMER, Sarah Address: Hadlowdown, Mayfield

OSMER, Joseph Head Married M 45 1806 Ag Lab
Mayfield, Sussex VIEW
OSMER, Hannah Wife Married F 49 1802
Framfield, Sussex VIEW
OSMER, Mary Ann Daughter F 11 1840 Scholar
Mayfield, Sussex VIEW
OSMER, Sarah Daughter F 9 1842 Scholar
Mayfield, Sussex VIEW
OSMER, Thomas Son M 4 1847
Mayfield, Sussex

IGI verification of the marriage

Name: Thomas Weaver

Spouse's Name: Sarah Hosmer
:
Event Date: 06 May 1866
Event Place: Hadlow Down,Sussex,England
Father's Name: John Weaver
Mother's Name:
Spouse's Father's Name: Joseph Hosmer

Indexing Project (Batch) Number: M15205-1
System Origin: England-ODM
GS Film number: 1067367
Reference ID:

Sarah's brother's marriage


Name: Thomas Hosmer
Event Type: Marriage
Event Date: 29 Dec 1867
Event Place: Hadlow Down, Hadlow Down, Sussex, England
Gender: Male
Marital Status: Single
Father's Name: Joseph Hosmer
Spouse's Name: Hannah Cottingham
Spouse's Father's Name: James Cottingham
GS Film number: 001067367
Digital Folder Number: 004427537
Image Number: 00540

1841 census

Person: OSBOURN, Hannah Address: Hadlow Down, Mayfield

OSBOURN, Joseph M 30 1811 Sussex VIEW
OSBOURN, Hannah F 35 1806 Sussex VIEW
OSBOURN, William M 5 1836 Sussex VIEW
OSBOURN, Mary F 1 1840 Sussex

Reggie

Actually, Dorothy made the suggestion of the name Hossman not me, I've never heard of it. Thank you for all your work on this line but I don't think it's the correct family.

What I've got to do now is to send for the marriage certificates of 1867 and 1880 and see what, if any, light they can shed. I might also send for the birth certificate of Samuel Simmons too as that is very close to my known facts.

Once again thank you everyone for your help, I'm extremely grateful and I'll get back to this thread when I have the certificates.

Rosemary

Rosemary, you didn't answer Reggie's question as to why you thought Samuel's father was also called Samuel.

You said Sarah Weaver married George Simmons in 1880.

Marriages Jun 1880
Barrett Frederick Uckfield 2b 158
Bassett Frederick Uckfield 2b 158
BLACKMAN Frances Amelia Uckfield 2b 158
Simmons George Uckfield 2b 158 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
WEAVER Sarah Uckfield 2b 158<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Uckfield Registration district covers Mayfield, which is where Sarah Weaver, whose father is named as Joseph Hossman, married George Simmons.. The marriage was 17th June ie the same qtr as the marriage in the bmd index above, so must be the same.

I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the work of Dorothy and all the subsequent work by Reggie.

The marriage is readily available on family search.

Name: George Simmons<<<<<<<<<<<
Birth Date: 1826
Birthplace:
Age: 54
Spouse's Name: Sarah Weaver<<<<<<<
Spouse's Birth Date: 1839
Spouse's Birthplace:
Spouse's Age: 41
Event Date: 17 Jun 1880
Event Place: Mayfield, Sussex, England<<<<<<<
Father's Name: William Simmons
Mother's Name:
Spouse's Father's Name: Joseph Hossman<<<<<<<<
Spouse's Mother's Name:
Race:
Marital Status:
Previous Wife's Name:
Spouse's Race:
Spouse's Marital Status:
Spouse's Previous Husband's Name:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: M14816-2
System Origin: England-VR
GS Film number: 1067250
Reference ID: 2:3F1TTLK

Also, if you check the ages of the bride and groom in the above marriage, originally posted by Dorothy, you will see Sarah'a age is spot on with the 1881 census for the Simmons posted earlier. Admittedly George has aged a bit by the time of the census, but being older than Sarah, perhaps he fudged things a bit!

There is only the one marriage of a George Simmons to a Sarah Weaver in 1880, and this is it.

?????

Possible death for Sarah Weaver nee Hossman/variant's husband Thomas?

Deaths Dec 1879 Weaver Thomas 64 Uckfield 2b 72

He seems a fair bit older than Sarah, but the marriage that Reggie posted shows he was a widower when he married her.


Name: Thomas Weaver
Event Type: Marriage
Event Date: 06 May 1866
Event Place: Hadlow Down, Hadlow Down, Sussex, England
Gender: Male
Age:
Marital Status: Widowed<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Birth Year (Estimated):
Father's Name: John Weaver
Mother's Name:
Spouse's Name: Sarah Hosmer
Spouse's Marital Status: Single
Spouse's Birth Year (Estimated):
Spouse's Father's Name: Joseph Hosmer
Spouse's Mother's Name:
GS Film number: 001067367
Digital Folder Number: 004427537
Image Number: 00537

However if Sarah's Weaver spouse was not the father of her son Samuel, then this death is also a possibility:

Deaths Sep 1871 Weaver Thomas 55 Uckfield 2b 69

A tree on Ancestry has this for Samuel's mother


Sarah Hossman {Weaver}
(father Joseph Hossman, no mother given)

Birth: 1840 - Sussex
Marriage: 17 Jun 1880 - Mayfield, Sussex
Death: 1910? - Hadlow Down, Sussex
Spouse: George Simmons

????

Name: Sarah Hosmer
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1842
Registration district: Uckfield
Inferred County: Sussex
Volume: 7
Page: 480

I really think Reggie has tracked Sarah down, following the lead given by the marriage Dorothy found.

There is only the one marriage in 1880, the one with Sarah's father as Joseph 'Hossman', and Sarah's first marriage to Thomas Weaver as demonstrated by Reggie, also shows her father to be Joseph.

Sarah Hossman/Hosmer's first marriage also takes place at hadlow Down, and I think son Samuel's birthplace is given as Hadlow in census 1901.

EDIT: It's actually given as Hadlow DN.

I think so too Kucinta. I was just supplying the Ancestry details as a second or even third opinion.

HI Rootgatherer,

My emphasis wasn't aimed at you - I really want Rosemary to review things in the light of the details of George and Sarah's marriage, and Reggie's subsequent work on tracing Sarah back to her family.

I also wonder what the reason/evidence is for thinking that Samuel's father is also named Samuel, as it flies in the face of the evidence of the 1880 marriage, and the previous marriage for Sarah. it's a question Reggie asked that wasn't answered.

Kucinta - sorry I didn't mean to dismiss all the work so lightly but I just couldn't follow the leads easily.

Quite frankly I can't remember now why I thought Samuel's father was also named Samuel - I started this search probably 12-18 months ago and got so bogged down I gave up. So it is probably my own mistake all that time ago which has lead me so far astray.

Rosemary

I had found the marriage in 1880 of George Simmons and Sarah Weaver but I thought Sarah's maiden name was Canfield - Genes Reunited used to have an area on the RHS of the page showing possible spouse matches which is what I used to find Sarah Canfield.

Do you know why this isn't used by GR now?

Rosemary

Maybe just take plenty of time to go through what's on this thread - I think the key to Sarah's identity lies with the 1880 marriage, which I think has to be your couple, it would beggar belief that two Sarah Weavers ended up with two George Simmons in the same location at the same time.

I think the identity of Samuel's father is still open. Sarah wasn't living with her husband in 1871, did she return to him, or is Samuel another man's son?

Sorry if I came across as too forceful with my opinion- I just feel very convinced by the evidence that Dorothy and Reggie have put forward, but you are the person who needs to evaluate it objectively and follow it up as you think best :-)

I think the key word is 'possible' . in 'possible spouse matches'

Not all possibilities pan out.

You know George and Sarah ended up together, and their marriage gives her father's name as Hossman, which, as Reggie says, rules out the Canfield side of things.

You then need to look at Reggie's case for identifying Sarah and Joseph Hossman, with the Hosmers, personally I think he's on the right track, but it's up to you to consolidate that line of enquiry.

He did also find the marriage of Sarah Hosmer, father named Joseph, to a Weaver male, which makes sense.

And you still have the question of the identity of Samuel's father, which may or may not be resolvable.

EDIT - Sorry, I probably sound as if I'm lecturing again,I don't mean to! :-(

Not sure about GR no longer showing possible spouse matches or not, as I tend to find freebmd easier to use, and if you click on the page no, you get all the possible brides and grooms on that page, and can always cross reference with the next census to work out who married who.

I tried looking on Freebmd for surname Weaver and spouse forename Sarah 1855-1871 in Sussex and it came up with these four possibilities, which would have needed cross referncing with other sources like census material or familysearch to check who married who:

Marriages Jun 1866
Hosmer Sarah Uckfield 2b 168 <<<<<<<<<<<<<
Martin Henry Uckfield 2b 168
Noakes Emma Uckfield 2b 168
WEAVER Thomas Uckfield 2b 168<<<<<<<<<<

Marriages Dec 1867
CANFIELD Sarah Lewes 2b 342 ???????????????
Haines William Lewes 2b 342
NOVIS Mary Ann Lewes 2b 342
Weaver Samuel Lewes 2b 342 ?????????????????????

Marriages Mar 1869
JESTIS Sarah Elizabeth Chichester 2b 456 ??????????
MILES George Chichester 2b 456
RUSSELL Elizabeth Chichester 2b 456
WEAVER James Card Chichester 2b 456 ??????????

Marriages Mar 1871
Collins William Edward Lewes 2b 189
Harris Sarah Lewes 2b 189 ?????????????
Mundy Susanna Lewes 2b 189
Weaver David Lewes 2b 189?????????????

Going simply on location, the Uckfield reg district would have seemed the most likely.

Also, KathleenBell on page one of the thread cross referenced with the census, and found a Samuel Weaver in the census with wife Mary A, who, as she posited, might well have been the other possible bride Mary Ann Novis from the 1867 marriage.

The 1880 marriage info has been posted......you don't need to spend money on the cert.

Please do read carefully everything which has been found for you.................

And - frankly - you'd be wasting money with the 1867 marriage cert - it simply is not relevant.

Such a lot of work has been carried out on this thread since I last logged on. Having read through the posts I think Reggie's suggestions are quite likely to be right.

You also need to remember that even though Samuel jnr. was born in the late 1870's his birth may not have been registered at all. Even though penalties came into force in 1875 for not registering a birth I would expect that it took quite a few years before most people complied with the rules, so his birth may simply not have been registered at all.

The only thing I'd disagree with Reggie about is that you'd be wasting your money buying the 1867 marriage certificate. I don't think you need it, BUT.......at least you would know one way or another who that Samuel Weaver married.

Kath. x

Here is Sarah brother from 1871 census Reggie found

Name:
William Hosman

Gender:
Male

Baptism Date:
1835

Baptism Place:
Mayfield, Sussex, England

Father:
Joseph Hosman

Mother:
Hannah

FHL Film Number:
1067250

Reference ID:
- 2:2T2JSNG