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So how would I trace him after this, their bigamist marriage or his death? I wouldn't have a clue...... what now to put into a search marriage or death cert?

Thank you both
I'm thinking the puzzle has been solved now, can't thank you enough
Sylvia I believe your theory of :John Buchanan and Rose moved in together, said they were married on the 1911, but the children are Rose's
Wonder what happened to cause his paralysis? probably tripped when he was legging it ha ha!!


;-)

re the other 3 Sarah Jane's

both Thomas Edwin & Sarah Jane Williams are on cheshirebmd subdistrict Chester Castle whereas the other 3 Sarah are not

well,

I'm now using both ancestry and FindMyPast ............ haven't had a sub to FMP for longer than a month before, but OH bought it for me for Christmas (and I got a deal for him :-D )

I'm finding FMP has quite a lot of records that ancestry doesn't have .............


but really wouldn't want to sway you.

I find ancestry easier to use, even after the latest updates ................. I've been using it since 2004, so I think I must know my way around.

FMP doesn't seem as easy to use to me.

Thanks, very well could be the case with him
That's what I thought as I was reading it. the reasons he probably wasn't spoken of are becoming increasingly clear.....
I've found someone who disappeared as a child then reappeared later listed as her biological mothers younger sister, it's amazing how things are covered up and over in families
I need to get ancestry again such a good site ??

I cannot find Thomas Edw*n Williams or Sarah Jane Williams with parents Samuel and Rose on the 1911 ............... though I might be missing something :-)


Theory ..................

John Buchanan and Rose moved in together, said they were married on the 1911, but the children are Rose's

Take this as you will ..................


this might be the baptism of Thomas Edwin born September quarter 1904, from FMP ...............


Diocese of Chester parish registers of baptisms c1538-1910

First name(s) Thomas Edwin
Last name Williams
Gender Male
Birth year 1904
Birth date 07 Aug 1904
Baptism year 1904
Baptism date 09 Sep 1904
Place Chester, St John
County Cheshire
Country England
Father's first name(s) Samuel
Father's last name Williams
Mother's first name(s) Rose
Record set Cheshire Diocese of Chester parish baptisms 1538-1911
Category Life Events (BDMs)
Subcategory Births & baptisms
Collections from United Kingdom

from image:-

Born Aug 7 1904
Address:- 17 Leadworks Lane
Father occupation:- Soldier



Diocese of Chester parish registers of baptisms c1538-1910

First name(s) Sarah Jane
Last name Williams
Gender Female
Birth year 1906
Birth date 09 Jun 1906
Baptism year 1906
Baptism date 29 Jul 1906
Place Chester, St John
County Cheshire
Country England
Father's first name(s) Samuel
Father's last name Williams
Mother's first name(s) Rose
Record set Cheshire Diocese of Chester parish baptisms 1538-1911
Category Life Events (BDMs)
Subcategory Births & baptisms
Collections from United Kingdom

from image:-

Born:- June 9 1906
Address:- 17 Leadworks Lane
Father occupation:- Labourer



now to see if there is a Samuel and Rose Williams on the 1911 Census :-)

can't see any births for Buchanan with those names ..........


??????? assuming that "born in Chester" on the 1911 meant the births were registered in Chester

Births Sep 1904 (>99%)
WILLIAMS Thomas Edwin Chester 8a 382

Births Jun 1906 (>99%)
Williams Sarah Jane Chester 8a 397


although there are also these registrations in Chester for Sarah Jane's

Births Mar 1907 (>99%)
GAWTHORPE Sarah Jane Chester 8a 377
YOUDE Sarah Jane Chester 8a 356

Births Mar 1908 (>99%)
Roberts Sarah Jane Chester 8a 376

Oh ................


just noticed that there is an entry in the Infirmity column for John .................. right side paralyzed

well done!!!


here's the ancestry version ...............

1911 Wales Census

Name: John Buchanan
Age in 1911: 35
Estimated birth year: abt 1876
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Male
Civil Parish: Wrexham Regis
Search Photos: Search for 'Wrexham Regis' in the UK City, Town and Village Photos collection
County/Island: Denbighshire
Country: Wales
Street address: 4 McDermotts Court York St Wrexham
Marital Status: Married
Years Married: 9
Estimated Marriage Year: 1902
Occupation: Pedlar
Registration district: Wrexham
Registration District Number: 621
Sub-registration district: Wrexham
ED, institution, or vessel: 38
Household schedule number: 15
Piece: 34065

John Buchanan 35
Rose Buchanan 28 b.ca 1883,
Thomas Edwen Buchanan 6 b.ca 1905
Sarah Jane Buchanan 4 b.ca 1907


Image for birthplace of both John and Rose is Whitchurch, Salop, and the children were born in Chester

I'll try to add that information, if I can


Interesting that he says he and Rose married in 1902, and the first child was born in 1905 ??????

I think today is the day I could have found him...... Although I haven't seen all of the household for this census, year & place of birth, year of marriage are the same and the proximity of Whitchurch to Wrexham roughly 16 miles


1911 England, Wales & Scotland Census
First Name John
Last Name Buchanan
Birth Year 1876
Age 35
Where Born Whitchurch Salop
Relationship To Head of Household Head
Gender Male
Condition Married
Year Of Marriage 1902
Years Of Marriage 9
Occupation Pedlar
Military Info
Address 4 Mc Dermotts Court York Street Wrexham
Parish Wrexham Regis
County Denbighshire
Country Wales
Ecclesiastical District
Enumeration District 38
Registration District Wrexham
Registration District Number 621
SubDistrict Number 3
Category Census, Land & Surveys
Record set 1911 Census for England & Wales
Collections from Great Britain
Census Reference RG14PN34065 RG78PN1965 RD621 SD3 ED38 SN15
Archive Reference RG14
Folio
Page
Piece Number 34065

Wow Thanks!! <3 Yes theres no reason really if its transcribed....... just LOOK. I found on one of mine where it had been changed from the paternal side of Diggle to Walkers wife's maiden name of Mann including their children glad I realised too....... Well 01.39am time fly's doing this eh?
So sorry...... haven't wished you All A Very Happy New Year

How would you like Hayhurst transcribed as Porst????????????


that was one of OH's ancestors


It was the modern-day transcriber who made the error in both your Buchanan and my Hayhurst :-)


The image on yours clearly showed Buchanan ............... if you'd only looked a bit more closely at it!

Someone had submitted a name correction for Samuel on that census, I added the change for the rest of the family earlier today :-)

Ha! I've just found these on Family search just adding them all :-)
Just shows how on the census spellings are so phonetic I can almost hear their Irish brogue in the pronounced " Buckanna" V Buchanan

1871 Census

Name: Samuel Buchanan
Age: 32
Estimated birth year: abt 1839
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Susanna Buchanan
Gender: Male
Where born: Mayo, Ireland
Civil Parish: Newcastle under Lyme
Ecclesiastical parish: St George
County/Island: Staffordshire
Country: England
Registration district: Newcastle Under Lyme
Sub-registration district: Newcastle under Lyme
ED, institution, or vessel: 14
Household schedule number: 63
Piece: 2833
Folio: 85
Page Number: 13

Samuel Buchanan 32 Labourer
Susanna Buchanan 25 b.ca 1846, Mayo, Ireland
James Buchanan 5
Samuel Buchanan 3
Martha Buchanan 9 Months

You're probably correct about Ireland ...............


1881 Census

Name: Samuel Buchanan
Age: 43
Estimated birth year: abt 1838
Relationship to Head: Head
Spouse: Susannah Buchanan
Gender: Male
Where born: Ireland
Civil Parish: Whitchurch
County/Island: Shropshire
Country: England
Street address: Folly Lane
Marital Status: Married

Occupation: Farm Labourer
Registration district: Whitchurch
ED, institution, or vessel: 4

Piece: 2670
Folio: 76
Page Number: 15

Samuel Buchanan 43
Susannah Buchanan 33 b.ca 1848, Ireland
James Buchanan 14 b.ca 1867, Newcastle, Staffordshire
Samuel Buchanan 12
Martha Buchanan 10
Mary Ann Buchanan 8
John Buchanan 6
Robert Buchanan 2


1891 Census

Name: Samuel Buckanna
[Samuel Buchanan]
Age: 52
Estimated birth year: abt 1839
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Susannah Buckanna
Gender: Male
Where born: Ireland
Civil Parish: Whitchurch
Ecclesiastical parish: Whitchurch
Town: Broughall
County/Island: Shropshire
Country: England

Registration district: Whitchurch
ED, institution, or vessel: 11

Piece: 2125
Folio: 147
Page Number: 4

Samuel Buckanna 52
Susannah Buckanna 42 b.ca 1849, Ireland
James Buckanna 24
Mary A Buckanna 18
John Buckanna 15
Robert Buckanna 11
William Buckanna 6
Eliza J Buckanna 3

Yes Sylvia Susannah was his mothers name, I'm sure they were from Mayo Ireland

I'm inclined to agree on the scarper idea, ( Genetic trait) ;-) But surely he couldn't get away with being incognito for the rest of his life, however that was? Im at a loss, hope he's having a good laugh, bless him...

the "intrigue" sort of indicates that he may have scarpered!!

That would not be all that unusual ................. marriages did break down then just as much, if not more, as they do now, but divorce was all but impossible to obtain and extremely expensive. So spouses separated, both may have stayed in the same town or one may have moved elsewhere. It was not unusual for the woman to say she was still married or to tell people she was widowed.

Nor was it unusual for the separated spouses to marry bigamously, although most do seem to wait until the other spouse has died even though they may have taken on another partner and have more children.


it does seem that your John was the one born in Shropshire, with the father Samuel ............ although Samuel is an Ag Lab on the 2 censuses that I found not a Gardener. However, elevation of parent's job is also not unusual :-)