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they had 3 children 1931-1944

My Dad and two surviving uncles, my dad was a twin but I've not seen it on any records.
You have been an amazing help :-)

your dad's twin might have been still born

However don't forget that any note re father being alive or dead on a marriage certificate cannot be trusted!

We've all come across certificates where the father was not said to be deceased, only to find he died years ago

or certificates where the father was deceased, but was still alive ................. whereabouts unknown to the child marrying.

So much depends on how the Vicar asked the question, and how the child responded

"What is your father's name?" ................. may or may not also elicit the information "..... but he's dead".

"What is your father's name, and is he still alive?" ...... would, or should, produce an answer.


Eleanor was very young when her father "disappeared", and she may not have known what he did ............ especially if his name was not mentioned!


So far as I know, his wife would be listed on a death certificate from that era only if she had been the informant of his death.

As lancashireann posted, that death registration is in error. That fact is indicated by the fact that "Whitechapel" on the freebmd entry is printed in italics ................

lancashireAnn Report 1 Jan 2016 16:47

is this one worth considering as John was a seaman

Deaths Jun 1906 (>99%)
Buchanan John 31 Whitechapel 1c 398

(mistranscribed as district should be Whitehaven 10c 398)


This is the corrected transcription as showing on FindMyPast .......


First name(s) JOHN
Last name BUCHANAN
Gender Male
Birth day -
Birth month -
Birth year 1875
Age 31
Death quarter 2
Death year 1906
District WHITEHAVEN
County Cumberland
Volume 10B
Page 398
Country England
Record set England & Wales deaths 1837-2007
Category Life Events (BDMs)
Subcategory Deaths & burials
Collections from United Kingdom


Obtaining that death certificate would certainly tell you if he had died at sea, but there may not be any corroborating information as to whether he is your John

hmmmmmmmm

maybe he wasn't a seaman????


from FMP


Diocese of Chester parish registers of marriages c1538-1910 Transcription

First name(s) John
Last name Buchanan
Age 27y
Marriage year 1902
Marriage date 09 Nov 1902
Marriage place Coppenhall
Spouse's first name(s) Annie
Spouse's last name Diggle
Spouse's age 25y
Bride's father's name Walker Diggle
City or town Coppenhall
County Cheshire
Country England
Reference item 3 p 106
Record set Cheshire Diocese of Chester parish marriages 1538-1910
Category Life Events (BDMs)
Subcategory Marriages & divorces
Collections from United Kingdom

from image:-

John
Occupation: Crane Driver
Address:- 22 Beech Grove, Crewe
Father Name and Occupation:- Samuel Buchanan, Gardener

Annie
no occupation shown
Address:- 22 Beech Grove, Crewe
Father occupation:- Fitter

Witnesses:- Charles Walter Bampton and Sarah Bampton

In case the witnesses may give a clue ..............

Marriages Dec 1892 (>99%)

BAMPTON Charles Walter Atcham 6a 1345
Peirce Sarah Elizabeth Atcham 6a 1345


but it doesn't look as if they were relations

IF father is Samuel and mother is Susannah, as indicated by the 1881 and 1891 censuses, then this might be John's baptism


Shropshire baptisms

First name(s) John
Last name Buchanan
Birth year -
Baptism year 1875
Baptism date 28 Jul 1875
Denomination Anglican
Place Whitchurch
Father's first name(s) Samuel
Mother's first name(s) Susannah
Mother's last name -
Residence -
County Shropshire
Register type Baptism
Register date range 1870-1884
Archive reference P303/A/2/4
Page 76
Record set Shropshire baptisms
Category Life Events (BDMs)
Subcategory Births & baptisms
Collections from United Kingdom

and could this be the familysearch and ancestry version :-D .................

England, Select Births and Christenings, 1538-1975

Name: John Birdeman
Gender: Male
Baptism Date: 28 Jul 1875
Baptism Place: Whitchurch, Shropshire, England
Father: Samuel Birdeman
Mother: Susannah
FHL Film Number: 1702220
Reference ID: item 5 p 76


no images available :-D

Gosh you lot have found out some things since I was last on here. I had the leccy go out and then had to get dinner.

It all sounds very interesting.

Sylvia & Mel lol :-D :-S
You see what I'm enduring?
Ok, My Grandmothers birth cert.... States John was a laborer at iron works at the time of her birth. Sometime after this he decided to vaporize, enough to give a new script for Sherlock ....... I have thought of many scenarios just wish I knew for sure.
I don't understand though how or why a man would be such a taboo subject had there not be a story of some sort surrounding him, intrigue has taken over I believe :-0

the "intrigue" sort of indicates that he may have scarpered!!

That would not be all that unusual ................. marriages did break down then just as much, if not more, as they do now, but divorce was all but impossible to obtain and extremely expensive. So spouses separated, both may have stayed in the same town or one may have moved elsewhere. It was not unusual for the woman to say she was still married or to tell people she was widowed.

Nor was it unusual for the separated spouses to marry bigamously, although most do seem to wait until the other spouse has died even though they may have taken on another partner and have more children.


it does seem that your John was the one born in Shropshire, with the father Samuel ............ although Samuel is an Ag Lab on the 2 censuses that I found not a Gardener. However, elevation of parent's job is also not unusual :-)

I'm inclined to agree on the scarper idea, ( Genetic trait) ;-) But surely he couldn't get away with being incognito for the rest of his life, however that was? Im at a loss, hope he's having a good laugh, bless him...

Yes Sylvia Susannah was his mothers name, I'm sure they were from Mayo Ireland

You're probably correct about Ireland ...............


1881 Census

Name: Samuel Buchanan
Age: 43
Estimated birth year: abt 1838
Relationship to Head: Head
Spouse: Susannah Buchanan
Gender: Male
Where born: Ireland
Civil Parish: Whitchurch
County/Island: Shropshire
Country: England
Street address: Folly Lane
Marital Status: Married

Occupation: Farm Labourer
Registration district: Whitchurch
ED, institution, or vessel: 4

Piece: 2670
Folio: 76
Page Number: 15

Samuel Buchanan 43
Susannah Buchanan 33 b.ca 1848, Ireland
James Buchanan 14 b.ca 1867, Newcastle, Staffordshire
Samuel Buchanan 12
Martha Buchanan 10
Mary Ann Buchanan 8
John Buchanan 6
Robert Buchanan 2


1891 Census

Name: Samuel Buckanna
[Samuel Buchanan]
Age: 52
Estimated birth year: abt 1839
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Susannah Buckanna
Gender: Male
Where born: Ireland
Civil Parish: Whitchurch
Ecclesiastical parish: Whitchurch
Town: Broughall
County/Island: Shropshire
Country: England

Registration district: Whitchurch
ED, institution, or vessel: 11

Piece: 2125
Folio: 147
Page Number: 4

Samuel Buckanna 52
Susannah Buckanna 42 b.ca 1849, Ireland
James Buckanna 24
Mary A Buckanna 18
John Buckanna 15
Robert Buckanna 11
William Buckanna 6
Eliza J Buckanna 3

1871 Census

Name: Samuel Buchanan
Age: 32
Estimated birth year: abt 1839
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Susanna Buchanan
Gender: Male
Where born: Mayo, Ireland
Civil Parish: Newcastle under Lyme
Ecclesiastical parish: St George
County/Island: Staffordshire
Country: England
Registration district: Newcastle Under Lyme
Sub-registration district: Newcastle under Lyme
ED, institution, or vessel: 14
Household schedule number: 63
Piece: 2833
Folio: 85
Page Number: 13

Samuel Buchanan 32 Labourer
Susanna Buchanan 25 b.ca 1846, Mayo, Ireland
James Buchanan 5
Samuel Buchanan 3
Martha Buchanan 9 Months

Ha! I've just found these on Family search just adding them all :-)
Just shows how on the census spellings are so phonetic I can almost hear their Irish brogue in the pronounced " Buckanna" V Buchanan

Someone had submitted a name correction for Samuel on that census, I added the change for the rest of the family earlier today :-)

How would you like Hayhurst transcribed as Porst????????????


that was one of OH's ancestors


It was the modern-day transcriber who made the error in both your Buchanan and my Hayhurst :-)


The image on yours clearly showed Buchanan ............... if you'd only looked a bit more closely at it!

Wow Thanks!! <3 Yes theres no reason really if its transcribed....... just LOOK. I found on one of mine where it had been changed from the paternal side of Diggle to Walkers wife's maiden name of Mann including their children glad I realised too....... Well 01.39am time fly's doing this eh?
So sorry...... haven't wished you All A Very Happy New Year