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wot a team :-)

now you need Ellen's birth cert for her date of birth


John in 1911

Name: John Llewellyn
Age in 1911: 54
Estimated birth year: abt 1857
Relation to Head: Head
Birth Place: Bilston, Staffordshire, England

Bilston was in Wolverhampton reg dist at the time

http://www.ukbmd.org.uk/genuki/reg/districts/wolverhampton.html

no John Llewellyn birth there 1850-1860

back to needing their marriage certificate to check his age and father's name and try to find him in a census before marriage

unless Andrew comes along with the answer :-)

That is definitely my grandmother. She was born in West Bromwich on December 14th 1894. Just looked for and found my grandmother's birth certificate amongst my mother's effects. Her mother was Ellen Llewellyn nee Webster. Well done!

a possible for Ellen but this is all speculation ... just because it's addictive

Births Dec 1860
WEBSTER Ellen W Bromwich 6b 588

the interchangeable names for 'Ellen' always remind me of Agatha Christie

and how one of her characters was put out by a servant called Helen, who was obviously putting on airs because servants were called Ellen :-)

that one sounds reasonable Andrew, I'd skipped over it

of course I was wondering whether, given Ellen's age when their first child was born, maybe they just did without the benefit of clergy :-)

but you need Eliza Jane's birth cert to be sure

Name: Eliza Jane Llewellyn
Age in 1911: 16
Estimated birth year: abt 1895
Relation to Head: Daughter
Gender: Female
Birth Place: West Bromwich, Staffordshire, England

Births Mar 1895
Llewellyn Eliza Jane W. Bromwich 6b 904

This is addictive isn't it? Their children were John, Sarah Ann, Eliza Jane (my grandmother) and William.

There is this

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marriages Mar 1877 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

>>>>>LLEWELLYN John Dudley 6c 105
STEPHENS Mary Jemima Dudley 6c 105
Taylor John Dudley 6c 105
>>>>>>WEBSTER Eleanor Dudley 6c 105


Not quite correct area, but close.

Andy

aha here are yours in 1881 in West Bromwich

John Llewelleyn 25
Helen Llewelleyn 20
Maria Llewelleyn 4
Mary A. Llewelleyn 1

but I don't see a marriage to Helen either

or a marriage earlier than 1880 (4 year old child in 1881) to a Helen or Ellen in the right vicinity

so I'd get the birth certificate

unless anybody else is cleverer than me :-)

I think this is the 1880 couple, in 1881

Name: Ellen Llewellyn
[Ellen Llewellen] (added by an Ancestry user)
Age: 22
Estimated birth year: abt 1859
Relationship to Head: Wife
Spouse: John Llewellyn
Where born: Warrington, Lancashire, England
Civil Parish: Warrington
County/Island: Lancashire
Registration district: Warrington

Name: John Llewellyn
[John Llewellen]
Age: 23
Estimated birth year: abt 1858
Relationship to Head: Head
Spouse: Ellen Llewellyn
Where born: Wordsley, Staffordshire, England
Civil Parish: Warrington
County/Island: Lancashire
Registration district: Warrington
Street address: 31 Pierpoint St
Marital Status: Married
Occupation: Stock Taker (Iron)

so it looks like that marriage isn't your gr-grparents

both that couple and your John & Ellen are present in the 1891 census

the ones I suspected :-)

so in the 1911 census, married 31 years

hm, the only potential marriage that fits the dates (although not quite, as it was to be 31 full years in 1911) but not the place

Marriages Sep 1880
FOY Ann Warrington 8c 184
? Llewellyn John Warrington 8c 184
MILLER David Warrington 8c 184
? Roberts Ellen Warrington 8c 184

since your John was born in Bilston and Ellen in West Bromich, that seems unlikely

I would suggest getting your grandmother's birth certificate to be sure of her mother's name

They lived in Clodeshall Road, Saltley, Birmingham at the 1911 census.

My great grandfather is John Llewellyn , married to Ellen Llewellyn. He was born in 1856/7 and died 14.07.1925. She was born in 1860 and died 24.01.1916. I don't know my great grandmother's maiden name.....yet!
I really appreciate all this expertise.

John and Dora were older than I had assumed

1939 register

Dora Llewellyn 1896 Birmingham C.B. Warwickshire
John Llewellyn 1885 Birmingham C.B. Warwickshire

so you will likely have to find your great-grandparents with their children in an earlier census than 1911

I see a possible family in 1901

let us know if you need help finding your great-grandparents' birth records in the index

once you have them, you order the certificates here

http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/

someone has

Dorothy Llewellyn 1926 Birmingham

but she would more likely be the Dorothy E born the same quarter

Hi Barbara, John Llewellyn was your grandmother's brother?

so it is the dates of birth of his and her parents you are wanting to find?

you would need their actual birth certificates for that information.

the 1911 census would show their ages on the date of the census, and you could use the ages to look for the birth records at http://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl

if you want to give their names and your grandmother's given name, to be certain of finding the right family in 1911, someone will give you the household info from that census

if you don't know your great-grandmother's birth surname, you will need to find their marriage

the 1911 census also says how long a couple was married, to help with finding that


edit - yes, Wilkes was Dora's surname

before 1911, the mother's birth surname is not shown in the index, so your grandmother's birth and her brother's birth will not show your great-grandmother's surname, without having their birth certificates

I presume Wilkes is Dora's maiden name.

Thank you so much. It's just what we thought. My sister and I lived with our grandparents until 1952. Next door lived my grandmother's brother and his wife who we have believed all our lives, were childless. However, this was the only explanation for a child sharing the grave of our great grandparents.
We want to buy a headstone for the grave but although we know the dates of the deaths, we need to know their DOB for the inscription on the headstone. How do we find out?

John and Dora 1927


Name:
Dora Llewellyn
Year:1927
Ward or Division/Constituency:Erdington
Street address:4 court 2 Drayton terrace, Washwood Heath
Residence Place:Birmingham

Andy

and 1901 census

1901 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
112, Three Shires Oak Road, Smethwick (Staffordshire), Kings Norton, Worcestershire, England


William Wilkes Head Married Male 41 1860 Painter & Decorator Walsall, Staffordshire, England Transcription
Ada Wilkes Wife Married Female 41 1860 - Birmingham, Warwickshire, England Transcription
Ada Ellen Wilkes Daughter Single Female 13 1888 - - Transcription
William G Wilkes Son Single Male 10 1891 - Birmingham, Warwickshire, England Transcription
Dora Wilkes Daughter Single Female 8 1893 - Smethwick, Staffordshire, England Transcription

possibly on the 1911 census
1911 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
112 Wigorn Road Bearwood Birmingham, Oldbury, Staffordshire, England


Ada Wilkes Head Widow Female Domestic Duties 51 1860 New Spring street Birmingham
Ada Wilkes Daughter Single Female Warehouse 23 1888 Canada
William Wilkes Son Single Male Plumber 20 1891 Sparkbrook Bham
Dora Wilkes Daughter Single Female Shop Assistant 18 1893 Threeshire Oak Rd Bearwood Bham

widow ,3 children born all living

possible birth for the mum
Births Jun 1892
Wilkes Dora Birmingham 6d 96