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We are overlapping here!

Yes, I have that certificate and the parents are John and Hannah. John is a mason. Unfortunately David John is a very common name and there are quite a lot of Humphreys in that area too.

I am now 99.9% sure that they didn't bother to register the births until they had to, by which time Elizabeth was dead.

Yeh- it's a tough one, it might be best to wait for that marriage cert!

Yes, although I don't think much of the transcription! Having said that and having had another look at the original, it did help that I knew what it said!!

It is because he was married by 1861 that I started looking further back for a marriage.

Have you searched for the possible children to the Eliza James/ Thomas Humphreys marriage?

HUMPHREYS, DAVID JOHN JAMES
GRO Reference: 1873 M Quarter in MERTHYR TYDFIL Volume 11A Page 422

1861?

Name Thomas Humphy
Age 34
Estimated Birth Year abt 1827
Relation Head
Spouse's Name Elzahk Humphy
Gender Male
Where born Ellgaron, Glamorgan, Wales (Image- Gellygaer)
Civil Parish or Township Merthyr Tydfil
Ecclesiastical parish Merthyr Tydfil
Town Merthyr
County/Island Glamorgan
Registration district Merthyr Tydfil
Sub-registration district Upper Merthyr Tydfil
ED, institution, or vessel 24
Household schedule number 163
Piece 4060 Folio 84 Page number 35

Name Age
Thomas Humphy 34 Flannel Manufacturer
Elzahk (Eliza) Humphy 25

Thomas was born in 1826 in Pandy, Gelligaer and his father is William Humphreys.

Both Thomas and his father were in the woollen industry and on the Davies certificate they are all miners.

Hello Andysmum- You said the Elizabeth Davies marriage was incorrect as Thomas father's name was wrong.

What is his father's name on the marriage to Mary Rees?

Greyghost, you posted while I was writing the above screed!

Those are the right children. William is my grandfather.

I have just been getting a bite to eat and you have all been very busy.

Thomas married twice, first to Elizabeth maiden name unknown, and then to Mary Rees (my great grandmother). Sha was a lot younger than Thomas and married again after he died.

The first 4 children, Elvira, Tydfil, David John and Margaret are Elizabeth's and the others, Anne, Mary, William and Thomas are Mary's. Unfortunately, none of Elizabeth's children are registered, and because they were Welsh Baptists, neither were they baptised as infants.

Greyghost, I went down the same path as you and, because the dates fitted, thought Thomas had married Elizabeth Davies. When I bought the certificate though it is definitely not the right one. The ages are wrong, and Thomas' occupation and his father's name and occupation are all wrong, so no doubt.

There is another Thomas Humphreys marriage to Eliza, in 1858 and I am currently waiting for the certificate. If this is the right one, I then have the puzzle of why there were no known children for 10 years and then a whole lot close together, all healthy and surviving to adulthood!! :-S

Elizabeth's death above is correct. As she died from childbirth complications, it is possible there was another child/pregnancy after Margaret.

In the 1891 census above, the wrongly transcribed Sydgie Rowe is actually Tydfil, who married John Rowe.

Bearing in mind the names of the last 3 children on the 1881 census i.e. Anne 1875, Mary E 1877 and William 1879, could this be the marriage of Thomas to Mary

England & Wales marriages 1837-2008 Transcription

First name(s) THOMAS
Last name HUMPHREYS
Marriage quarter 3
Marriage year 1874
Registration month -
MarriageFinder™ THOMAS HUMPHREYS married one of these people
MARY REES, ELIZABETH JENKINS
District MERTHYR TYDFIL
District number -
County Glamorganshire
Country Wales
Volume 11A
Page 689

as these registrations show on the GRO online site. There are other MMn but none consistent through all 3 births.

I'm not seeing registrations for the earlier children

Name: Mother's Maiden Surname:
HUMPHREYS, ANN REES Order
GRO Reference: 1875 J Quarter in MERTHYR TYDFIL Volume 11A Page 498

HUMPHREYS, MARY ELIZA REES
GRO Reference: 1877 D Quarter in MERTHYR TYDFIL Volume 11A Page 470

HUMPHREYS, WILLIAM REES
GRO Reference: 1879 S Quarter in MERTHYR TYDFIL Volume 11A Page 448

1871
mentioned above
John Davies Head - Male 44 1827 - Cardiganshire, Wales
Transcription
Mary Davies Wife - Female 44 1827 - Cardiganshire, Wales
Transcription
David L Davies Son - Male 19 1852 - Glamorgan, Wales
Transcription
Margaret Davies Daughter - Female 17 1854 - Glamorgan, Wales
Transcription
Mary Davies Daughter - Female 15 1856 - Glamorgan, Wales
Transcription
William Davies Son - Male 13 1858 - Glamorgan, Wales
Transcription
Hannah Davies Daughter - Female 11 1860 - Glamorgan, Wales
Transcription
Tydfil Davies Granddaughter - Female 0 1871 - Glamorgan, Wales

but she is still with them in 1881 and 1891

And possible for a marriage to Mary?

England & Wales marriages 1837-2008 Transcription

First name(s) THOMAS
Last name HUMPHREYS
Marriage quarter 4
Marriage year 1874
Registration month -
MarriageFinder™ THOMAS HUMPHREYS married one of these people
SOPHIA EVANS, MARY JANE THOMAS
District MERTHYR TYDFIL
District number -
County Glamorganshire
Country Wales
Volume 11A
Page 638

Possibly Elizabeth's death

England & Wales deaths 1837-2007 Transcription

First name(s) ELIZABETH
Last name HUMPHREYS
Gender Female
Birth day -
Birth month -
Birth year 1839
Age 35
Death quarter 2
Death year 1874
District MERTHYR TYDFIL
County Glamorganshire
Volume 11A
Page 319
Country

If this is the right marriage then Elizabeth was a Davies
England & Wales marriages 1837-2008 Transcription

First name(s) THOMAS
Last name HUMPHREYS
Marriage quarter 2
Marriage year 1868
Registration month -
MarriageFinder™ THOMAS HUMPHREYS married one of these people
HANNAH DAVIES, ELIZABETH DAVIES
District MERTHYR TYDFIL
District number -
County Glamorganshire
Country Wales
Volume 11A
Page 561

Do you know the maiden name of Elizabeth?

There is a Tydfil Davies down as Granddaughter aged 3 months with John and Mary Davies in Mary Street, Merthyr - might have been wrongly recorded as a Davies?

Thomas and daughter Elvira in 1871, with wife Elizabeth, so looks like he did remarry, post 1871 census, so maybe Tydfil not Elizabeth's and just a mistake made with ages?

1871 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Pontmorlais West, Merthyr Tydfil, Glamorganshire, Wales

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Margaret Rees Servant - Female 15 1856 - Glamorgan, Wales
Thomas Humphreys Head - Male 44 1827 - Glamorgan, Wales
Elizabeth Humphreys Wife - Female 33 1838 - Glamorgan, Wales
Elvira Humphreys Daughter - Female 2 1869 - Glamorgan, Wales

Just in case you don't have this, it looks as if Thomas has died and Mary remarried - Mary & some of the children in 1891:


Name:
Willie Humphries
[Willie Humphreys]
[William Humphries]

Age:11
Estimated birth year:abt 1880
Relation:Son
Father's name:John Mitchel
Mother's name:May Mitchel
Gender:Male
Where born:Merthyr, Glamorgan, Wales
Civil Parish:Merthyr Tydfil
Ecclesiastical parish:Merthyr Tydfil
Town:Merthyr Tydfil
County/Island:Glamorgan
Country:Wales

John Mitchel 48
May Mitchel 37
Sydgie Rowe 20
D J Humphries 18
M A Humphries 18
Annie Humphries 15
May E Humphries 13
Willie Humphries 11
Tom Humphries 9
Edith M Mitchel 3/12

This is the entry from FMP - wife Mary is a lot younger than Thomas - is she second wife? Maybe all the children aren't hers (or even if they are) and there was a slight discrepancy with ages.

1881 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
1011, Pontmorlais West, Merthyr Tydfil, Glamorganshire, Wales

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Thomas Humphreys Head Married Male 55 1826 Woolen Manufacturer Employing 13 Men And 6 Girls Gelligaer, Glamorgan, Wales
Mary Humphreys Wife Married Female 28 1853 - Merthyr Tydfil, Glamorgan, Wales
Elvira Humphreys Daughter Single Female 12 1869 - Merthyr Tydfil, Glamorgan, Wales
Tydfil Humphreys Daughter Single Female 11 1870 - Merthyr Tydfil, Glamorgan, Wales
David J Humphreys Son Single Male 9 1872 - Merthyr Tydfil, Glamorgan, Wales
Maggie A Humphreys Daughter Single Female 9 1872 - Merthyr Tydfil, Glamorgan, Wales
Anne Humphreys Daughter Single Female 6 1875 - Merthyr Tydfil, Glamorgan, Wales
Mary E Humphreys Daughter Single Female 4 1877 - Merthyr Tydfil, Glamorgan, Wales
William Humphreys Son Single Male 2 1879 - Merthyr Tydfil, Glamorgan, Wales
Margaret Rees Servant Single Female 24 1857 Domestic Servant Merthyr Tydfil, Glamorgan, Wales
Mary Isaac Servant Single Female 16 1865 Domestic Servant Llanfabon, Glamorgan, Wales

I don't think many of us who use/help on the boards actually have Platinum membership on Genes, so trying to help other ways.

All I actually see on GR Search is one entry for Tydfil in Merthyr Tydfil aged 11 on the 1881 census, as below, which is as it says, from FMP anyway. Unable to look at the original on Genes

1881 England, Wales & Scotland Census
First Name Tydfil
Last Name Humphreys
Birth Year 1870
Age 11
Birth Place Wales
Birth Town Merthyr Tydfil
Birth County Glamorgan
Relationship To Head of Household Daughter
Gender Female
Occupation
Condition Single
Street Pontmorlais West
Parish Merthyr Tydfil
Town
City
County Glamorganshire
Country Wales
Registration District Merthyr Tydfil

Archive Reference RG11
Folio 83
Page 25
Piece Number 5317
© Findmypast

I have just had another look at the search page, and noticed that, although it has Tydfil Humphreys at the top of the page, the individual entries have no name by them. :-(

I guess this is another false trail. Thank you all for trying, anyway.