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I have come to the conclusion that even if i purchase a copy of the birth certificate for Elizabeth Howarth born 1894 MMN Talbot..........it wont help with the details given on her marriage record.

My eyes have turned inside out. :-S

Prickles, x

Hi Rose

Sorry i had an unexpected visitor.

I found Mary.........how very odd.

I was trying to see if i could find a parish marriage record for Jane to see who the witnesses were.

Perhaps i will give Mary a go. :-S

Prickly Holly Do you think Jane on that 1911 census might be Mary (Jane)

HOWARTH, MARY TALBOT Order
GRO Reference: 1900 M Quarter in WEST DERBY Volume 08B Page 682

The is no Elizabeth/Lizzie with her parents on the 1901 census

William Laurina (Lawrence on the image) Howarth in the 1901 England Census
Name: William Laurina Howarth
Age: 25
Estimated birth year: abt 1876
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Male
Spouse: Mary Howarth
Birth Place: Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Civil Parish: West Derby
Registration district: West Derby
Sub-registration district: West Derby, Eastern

Household Members:

William Laurina Howarth 25
Mary Howarth 23
Henry Howarth 3

Thank you Austin

FMP is in *Go Slow" mode at the moment so it's taking me forever.

Possible? Sorry PH, I don't have time to follow this at the moment

4 Ash Grove , Liverpool C.B., Lancashire, England

William T Haworth 12 Jul 1873 Male General Labourer Married
Mary Haworth 08 May 1877 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Married
Closed Record
Marie Fitzsimmons (Haworth) 14 Sep 1919 Female Factory Hand - Sweep Single
Closed record
------------------------------

William's initial is L on original


Births Dec 1919
Howarth Marie Talbot W. Derby 8b 1167

off out- will try and pop back tomorrow :)

Just looking to see if i can spot the parents on the 1939 Register.

This is the family in 1911..............with the daughter Lizzie i mentioned earlier

1911 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
14 Dee Street Liverpool, West Derby, Lancashire, England

William Howarth Head Married Male Mill Hand 37 1874 Liverpool
Transcription
Mary Howarth Wife Married Female - 34 1877 Liverpool
Transcription
Lizzie Howarth Daughter Single Female - 17 1894 Liverpool
Transcription
Henry Howarth Son Single Male - 13 1898 Liverpool
Transcription
Jane Howarth Daughter Single Female - 10 1901 Liverpool
Transcription
Richard Howarth Son Single Male - 5 1906 Liverpool
Transcription
Alfred Howarth Son Single Male - 2 1909 Liverpool
Transcription
Lilian Howarth - Single Female - 0 1911 Liverpool
Transcription
Jas Law Lodger Married Male Labourer 49 1862 Liverpool
Transcription
Bridget Finertyser Servant Widow Female - 74 1837 Killkemey


HOWARTH, ELIZABETH MMN TALBOT
GRO Reference: 1894 D Quarter in WEST DERBY Volume 08B Page 598

I am not seeing a birth for a Jane Howarth MMN Talbot.

Oh yes...........that is interesting Austin thank you.

Will see what i can find.

Ah, that is the William Lawrence Howarth who married ...Mary Talbot.

Marriages Jun 1894 (>99%)
Howarth William Lawrence Liverpool 8b 22
Talbot Mary Liverpool 8b 22

Hello PH-

Short on time, but thought this might be of interest (note witness):

Marriage:
Name: Henry Howarth
Gender: Male
Age: 22
Birth Year: abt 1897
Marriage Date: 21 Dec 1919
Marriage Place: Liverpool, St Philip, Lancashire, England
Father: William Lawrence Howarth (Labourer)
Spouse: Rebecca Elizabeth Rowson
Witnesses: Thomas Reynolds & Isabella Peters

Thank you again everyone.

I've not found anything that convinces me enough to purchase a birth certificate. :-(

Prickles. x

????

BOYLE, ELIZABETH - Order
GRO Reference: 1892 D Quarter in TOXTETH PARK Volume 08B Page 228

Just because I came across it, and might be relevant to not appearing on the 1901?

William Howarth
in the UK, Military Deserters, 1812-1927

Name: William Howarth
Age: 26
Birth Year: Abt 1874
Birth Place: West Derby, Lancashire
Desertion Date: 1900
Publication Date: 20 Feb 1900

1901 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
22, Eldon Place, Liverpool, Lancashire, England

Learn more
Print transcription View image
Household Members
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
James Boyle Head Married Male 58 1843 Engineers Laborer Ireland
Transcription
Jane Boyle Wife Married Female 49 1852 - Oswestry, Denbighshire, Wales
Transcription
Maggie Boyle Daughter Single Female 16 1885 Home Help Scotland
Transcription
Thomas J Boyle Son - Male 13 1888 - Oswestry, Denbighshire, Wales
Transcription
Robert Boyle Son - Male 9 1892 - Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Transcription
Fanny Howarth Daughter Married Female 28 1873 - Oswestry, Denbighshire, Wales
Transcription
William Howarth Son-In-Law Married Male 27 1874 General Laborer Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Transcription
Jane Hall Daughter Married Female 21 1880 - Scotland

just might be worth getting the birth cert for elizabeth mother Talbot, you never know
:-)

1

HOWARTH, ALFRED TALBOT Order
GRO Reference: 1909 M Quarter in WEST DERBY Volume 08B Page 550

HOWARTH, RICHARD TALBOT Order
GRO Reference: 1906 J Quarter in WEST DERBY Volume 08B Page 557

I checked on Ireland's 1901 and 1911 census records.

No luck there either.

So frustrating. I have been going round in circle for about 2 hours.

Thank you so much everyone for taking the time to look....Much appreciated. :-)

I might just have to throw the towel in on this one!

:-(

Marriages Jun 1897 (>99%)
Boyle Frances Ellenor Liverpool 8b 57
Candy Thomas Liverpool 8b 57
Howarth William Liverpool 8b 57
Thompson Margaret Liverpool 8b 57

The wife on that 1939 Register is Frances E

This is the marriage for the couple Maddie.....

Marriages Jun 1897 (>99%)
Boyle Frances Ellenor Liverpool 8b 57
Howarth William Liverpool 8b 57

The son Robert....

Births Jun 1915 (>99%)
Howarth Robert Boyle Liverpool 8b 90