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Well if it is that William cunliffe dea mentioned , he is,one of my ancestors . Ambrose is in my tree. William would have to be traveling to America in the 1850s and early sixties though ? Wondering if i had a feeling of connection now . Would a blacksmith take interest and get involved in a,cotton famine problem though ? Have we found this William travelling to America in the time period in question though ?
I for one would be delighted to have a family connection however distant. :-) :-)
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1851 2 Heap Street Burnley
Richard Tattersall
William Cunliffe Lodger a Blacksmith 1833 Burnley.
I think the William 1833 and Mary (Hargreaves)went to Deptford London and he died 1894 Greenwich kent. They had son William 1871 Burnley.
Maryb
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EUREKA !!!!!
I believe I have him - I have been following this one - not sure why, but I had 'one of my feelings' ??
Apologies as this is very jumbled but I have to go out now and I am already VERY late but I couldn't wait to see what you all think?
Lancashire Baptisms Transcription
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First name(s) William
Last name Cunliffe
Birth year -
Residence Burnley
Denomination Church Of England
Baptism year 1833
Baptism date 20 Jan 1833
Baptism place Burnley, St Peter
Diocese Blackburn
County Lancashire
Country England
Father's first name(s) Vevers
Father's occupation Black Smith
Mother's first name(s) Elizabeth
Archive Lancashire Record Office
Archive reference PR 3027/1/11
Register type Baptisms
Baptism: 20 Jan 1833 St Peter, Burnley, Lancashire, England
William Cunliffe - [Child] of Vevers Cunliffe & Elizabeth
Abode: Burnley
Occupation: Black Smith
Baptised by: J. S. Master Off. Mins.
Register: Baptisms 1828 - 1833, Page 245, Entry 1957
Source: LDS Film 1517690
1841 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Yorkshire Street, Whalley, Burnley, Lancashire, England
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Household Members
First name(s) Last name Sex Age Birth year Birth place
Veevers Cunliffe Male 30 1811 Lancashire, England - Blacksmith
Transcription
Elizabeth Cunliffe Female 30 1811 Lancashire, England
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Mary Cunliffe Female 14 1827 Lancashire, England
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Margaret Cunliffe Female 11 1830 Lancashire, England
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William Cunliffe Male 8 1833 Lancashire, England
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Alice Cunliffe Female 5 1836 Lancashire, England
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Elizabeth Cunliffe Female 3 1838 Lancashire, England
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Ambrose Cunliffe Male 1 1840 Lancashire, England
1861 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
24, Boot Street, Burnley, Lancashire, England
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Household Members
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Veevers Cunliffe Head Married Male 56 1805 Retired Blacksmith Burnley, Lancashire, England
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Elizabeth Cunliffe Wife Married Female 54 1807 Blacksmith Wife Burnley, Lancashire, England
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William Cunliffe Son Unmarried Male 28 1833 Blacksmith Burnley, Lancashire, England
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Ambrose Cunliffe Son Unmarried Male 20 1841 Blacksmith Burnley, Lancashire, England
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Samuel Cunliffe Son Unmarried Male 16 1845 Joiners Apprentice Burnley, Lancashire, England
NO WILLIAM !!!!!
1851 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Boot Street, Burnley, Lancashire, England
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Household Members
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Veevers Cunliffe Head Married Male 46 1805 Smith Burnley, Lancashire, England
Transcription
Elizabeth Cunliffe Wife Married Female 44 1807 Winds The House Burnley, Lancashire, England
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Margaret Cunliffe Daughter Unmarried Female 21 1830 Weaver (Cotton) Burnley, Lancashire, England
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Alice Cunliffe Daughter Unmarried Female 15 1836 Dressmaker Burnley, Lancashire, England
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Elizabeth Cunliffe Daughter - Female 13 1838 Servant Burnley, Lancashire, England
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Ambrose Cunliffe Son - Male 10 1841 Errand Boy Burnley, Lancashire, England
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Samuel Cunliffe Son - Male 6 1845 Scholar Burnley, Lancashire, England
Marriage: 1 Jun 1870 St Peter, Burnley, Lancashire, England
William Cunliffe - Full, Gate Maker, Bachelor, S. Peter St.
Mary Hargreaves - Full, Spinster, Jack? Hill
Groom's Father: Veevers Cunliffe, Blacksmith
Bride's Father: Thomas Hargreaves, Farmer
Witness: Thomas Driver; Sarah Hargreaves **
Married by Licence by: A. Townley Parker Rector
Register: Marriages 1869 - 1875, Page 55, Entry 109
Source: LDS Film 1526392
Marriage: 1 May 1873 Holy Trinity, Habergham Eaves, Lancashire, England **
Thomas Driver - 34, Domestic Servant, Bachelor, Hood House
Sarah Hargreaves - 27, Domestic Servant, Spinster, Hood House
Groom's Father: James Driver, Farm Servant
Bride's Father: Thomas Hargreaves, Farmer
Witness: Thomas Hargreaves; Susan Hargreaves
Married by Banns by: E. C. Maclure
Register: Marriages 1870 - 1875, Page 144, Entry 287
Source: LDS Film 1526143
22 October 1879 - Manchester Courier and Lancashire General A
Travel to America:
WILLIAM CUNLIFFE
First Name WILLIAM
Last Name CUNLIFFE
Occupation BLACKSMITH
Age 20
Ship ROSCIUS
Arrived 2 Feb 1853
Country ENGLAND
Port of departure LIVERPOOL
City or village of destination UNITED STATES
Country of birth ENGLAND
From this site: http://www.castlegarden.org/quick_search_detail.php?p_id=2325043
I 'shall' return....................
Dea x
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Well if he was the William who married 1849 and couldn't write his name then in a short space of time he became a very very clever well spoken young man.
I agree it looks like we have the wrong man.
Maryb.
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yes, simon emailed with the article but i wasnt sure if he meant that he thought the above william was the correct one or he had found another possible william.
Yes, i did think that too dea , he may have said he had travelled to america for dramatic effect ? Perhaps a relative had been ? When i suggested the above william he did think he might be too old.
here is the article
“The Burnley Advertiser”, Saturday, April 11, 1863
THE AMERICAN QUESTION: MEETING IN THE MECHANICS’ INSTITUTION
A young man named William Cunliffe, who some time before had risen in the body of the meeting to object to what had been stated, now appeared on the platform. He said he was a working man like themselves. He had been in the United States. He had been West, and he had been South too. He was not not [sic] like Mr. Sinclair. He had no fear of hanging. He went to the States in love with them. He thought the States a model government. When he heard these men speak as they did, his English blood rose in his veins. He was astonished at them. Evidently they did not want anyone to have an opinion contrary to themselves. They told them that this was a question of slavery; he thought it was a question of domination over the South. The South had a right to secede. They were told that the North had all along been struggling for the freedom of the negro. They might listen to their sentiments about the negro, but they kicked him out of the carriages in some parts, in others, however, he was suffered to ride with his master. One of the speakers told them that the negro had a right to vote in the free states; but he had to have a certain amount of property in order to acquire the right, which was not the case with the white man. He found in the Northern States the strongest prejudice against the negro. In their theatres, the negro had to sit with the worst characters thieves, prostitutes, and disreputable persons all in one box. “God defend me,” said the speaker, “from ever becoming a subject of the United States.” (Great Cheering.) In the Northern their aim was self aggrandisement. In the North, he found all rotten and corrupt. Everyone was ready to put his hand in the public purse for his own ends. He found, in order to get power, politicians ready to give voting papers to anyone, although five years’ residence was required in order to entitle them to vote. Mr. Denison had referred to the advertisement found in English newspapers in which the words “No Irish need apply” were found. He had himself seen the same words in advertisements in United States’ papers. They told them to let the States alone, and yet these men came here to interfere with them. It seemed to him that the North wanted them to hold the South while they thrashed him. John Bull liked to see fair play. Mr. Cunliffe then referred in a telling way to the outcry of the North about the Alabama, but they said nothing about the hundreds of thousands of muskets and rifles which had gone from this country to them. They had been shipping men in Ireland for the North. During the Russian war, the states resented the attempt to enlist men for England, of which he believed the English government knew nothing, and at the same time subjects of the States went out openly to help Russia against England. After a few more pertinent remarks, Mr. Cunliffe concluded by moving the following amendment:- “That this meeting while it deplores the civil war in America and its attendant evils, does consider as unwarrantable and unjust, and as a breach of strict neutrality any public demonstration of sympathy with either of the contending factions in this war; and that this meeting especially views with indignation the attempt of Northern agencies to interfere with the free sentiments and judgeme
So it says young man, which kind of rules out william cunliffe in a way ? :-S
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Ok thank you.
In another item on google it says Simon Rennie was able to trace a William who may fit the bill for William Cunliffe but the article doesn't reveal his findings.
Maryb.
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there is an article from william cunliffe speaking about his travelling to america and seeing for himself the situation , he says he is well travelled. i will try and attach that , i am not sure if i have it in an email.
shirley
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I did see it mentioned in some of the articles that he had lived in USA at some stage - of course, he could well have lied about this ?
Dea x
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I couldn't find James as yet in 1851.
Is it's possible he didn't travel to America at all or have you read about him being in America.
He could have just had knowledge of America as the American Civil War was connected to the cotton famine and many would have known that.
Maryb.
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Just thought, William would be married on 1851 , are you able to see if James is still on with maybe adult children. Wondered who he would be living with after death of wife Margaret ? He would be approx 70 . He didn't die until 1853 . :-S
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I think williams parents, James and Margaret died in 1853 and 1850 respectively , so Margaret shouldn't appear on the 1851 census. Can you see if William cunliffe has any brothers and sisters on the 1851 census at all ? Or maybe on the 1841 but realize there will be no relationship status then. :-)
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Thanks. So it seems James married into the massey family as did his possible grandson Richard graham ....just wondering when William might have done his teavelling to America,, if it is him ? :-S
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William 1813 to James 1779 and Margaret nee Massey 1781 married 1800
1841 Perciling/Pencilling Lane (can't read it correctly but was next to Sandygate.Burnley)
James a wool comber
William 1813 labourer
1851 7,Winn Hill
William Cunliffe 1803 woolcomber.
With Margaret and children.
Maryb.
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No , we have no subscription to times. Not current anyway. Think ill read through some of the articles in the Burnley gazette gor 1863 when have a day off. If i read the one where he makes his speech I might glean something. It would be hood if i could find William on the 1841 or 1851 , can anyone spot him on that , by 1851 he would have been still in Burnley i presume having been married to Margaret two years. Just thought that you had to have money to travel to America in those days. Unless they sent him through work or he considered emigrating but came home.
Shouldn't get hopes up its the correct William really but till i am told otherwise .... :-S
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1871 it says Richard a cripple from fits.
1881 32,sandygate with parents Richard says unmarried a Baker.
1891 32 Sandygate
Richard Graham a musician
Martha wife
Richard Graham married Martha Maria Massey A/M/J 1881
Maryb
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Please could anyone check the 1861 census for william and margaret to see if richard was the child marked down as disabled ?
thanks
shirley :-)
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In fact i seem to remember that on one of the census the family is listed, may have been the 1861 one, and richard is listed as disabled or crippled i think. ? Not certain of this but can anyone check? He would be approx 13 then ?
I did think he got married though, perhaps to ann brennand ? maybe in 1871 ? They would be living on whinn Hill still then in 1861.
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richard was born richard graham in 1848 just before william and margaret married in 1849, but i think that he was son of william too.
Just found his death in 1897. This could maybe be the dick he was talking about in his poem, as he would have been 15 then. :-)
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on his wedding cert. it also says age 33 in 1849. But i have only found him being born in 1813 as you say and he was 81 in 1895 which makes his birth around 1813. :-S
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