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My Grandfather said he was brought up in an orphanage. On enlisting in the army he gave his details as follows: FREDERICK JOHN BUTLER born 20/08/1898 Born LAMBETH on his marriage cert (Scotland 1917) it states his father as being WALTER LOUIS BUTLER (HOUSE PAINTER) DECEASED and Mother (Deceased) I do not believe the date of birth given is correct as I cannot find him anywhere. Please, is there any kind person who would take the time to try and trace him for me. Many thanks Rosie

Hi Rosie, this is the only Fredrick Butler i can find at present in Scotland.. FREDERICK BUTLER Male -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Event(s): Birth: 28 DEC 1872 Central District, Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland Christening: Death: Burial: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Parents: Father: PATRICK BUTLER Family Mother: ELIZABETH BROADLEY

Georgina he stated on his army records tht his father was deceased. That was in 1912 when he enlisted, so this cannot be the same father. Rosie

No he wasnt born in Scotland, he MARRIED in Scotland. He said he was born in LAMBETH (London). Thank you anyway for looking Rosie

This could be his fathers death... Deaths Sep 1914 (>99%) Butler Walter L 65 Lambeth 1d 322 Georgina.

Rosie the only Walter Butler on the 1901 census who is a Painter is in Kent, he has a son Frederick but he is 9 in 1901? Name: Walter Butler Age: 48 Estimated birth year: abt 1853 Relation: Head Spouse's name: Joanna Gender: Male Where born: Chatham, Kent, England Civil parish: Chatham Ecclesiastical parish: Christchurch County/Island: Kent Country: England Street address: Occupation: Condition as to marriage: Education: Employment status: View image Registration district: Medway Sub-registration district: Rochester and Chatham ED, institution, or vessel: 43 Neighbors: View others on page Household schedule number: 148 Household Members: Name Age Arthur Butler 18 Elizabeth Butler 20 Frederick Butler 9 James Butler 13 Joanna Butler 48 Julia Butler 15 Walter Butler 48 Georgina.

Rosie if Frederick enlisted in 1912 & gives his birth year as 1898 he would have only been 14 years old & too young to enlist. Did Frederick marry? What info does he give about his father on his marriage certificate? Georgina.

Could this be him here Rosie? Household: 1881 cencus Name Relation Marital Status Gender Age Birthplace Occupation Disability William J. BUTLER Head M Male 29 Deptford, Kent, England Oil Shopkeeper (& Colourman) Catherine L. BUTLER Wife M Female 26 Brighton, Sussex, England Frederick BUTLER Son U Male 8 m Lambeth, Surrey, England Margaret M. TERREY Sister In Law U Female 17 Brighton, Sussex, England

what age did he state on his marriage cert he may have lied about his age in order to enlist

Georgina I dont think this can be the right family as my Grandad always said he never remembered his parents as he was brought up in an orphanage, so if this was my Grandad surely he would remember them at aged 9? If he was indeed born in 1898 like he said, this would only make him 14 when he enlisted in the army in 1912 so I am inclined to think the year of his birth is wrong anyway. Thank you for your help

Hi Rosie, Cant yet find your Frederick, but have found these on 1891; Walter L Butler age 35 born St Giles Middlesex occ; Painter (house) Jane Butler wife age 44 born Peckham, Surrey Walter O Butler age 14 born York Rd Lambeth occ; errand boy Lionel G Butler age 13 born West Sq, Lambeth. There is a marriage for Walter Lovick Butler (mistranscribed?) to Jane Ballantine jan qtr 1876 Camberwell (1d 746). Cant find any but Walter O on 1901 yet. He is a prisoner in Wandswoth prison aged 24, occ housepainter. There is a death for Walter L Butler july qtr 1914 Lambeth (1d 322). The same family are in Lambeth on 1881 RG11 piece 595 folio 104 page 20 at East Street Lambeth. Will see if I can find any of them....and Frederick.

Rosie .so hes consistent with his age then.. Do you have his death cert that may have his birth date on it.

KAZ the 1881 census would be too early for it to be the correct Frederick Thanks

Shirley - he stated on his marriage certificate that he was 18 years old Rosie

Shirley - no I dont have his death certificate but I know he died in 1971 as I was with him at the time. O I do wish I had asked him more questions about his past when I had the opportunity! Rosie

Possible birth for Frederick Butler apr qtr 1899 Lambeth (1d 359)

Rosie did he die in Scotland or England? There is a death reference in the march quarter 1971 in Bristol for a Frederick John Butler & his date of birth is 24/11/1883, is this him? There is another death in the december quarter 1971 in Hampstead Frederick John Butler DOB 20/08/1898. Georgina.

Jane thank you so much for all that information. I did discover this family myself ages ago but unfortunately dismissed them at the time. However, now I have asked for help and the only possible family coming back seems to be this one then I am inclined to change my opinion. Thanks again

If I were to order a birth certificate on the info given by Jane, would I have to write to Lambeth Registry Office or to Kew. Sorry but I am new to all this and havent had to send off for a certificate before as all my other relatives are Scottish and so have been using the Scottish site. Rosie