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Marriages Mar 1847 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hoyle Esau Halifax 22 124 (2 Marys on same page Ellison and Teal) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Deaths Mar 1858 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hoyle Esau Halifax 9a 346 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Deaths Sep 1858 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hoyle Esau Halifax 9a 295 Shame there are 2 deaths for the correct period - surely 1 has to be his son?? Right I really am going now :-) Jenny

1841 - image looks like Esau?? Esan Hoyle abt 1826 Yorkshire, England Halifax Yorkshire View Record Hannah Hoyle abt 1806 Yorkshire, England Halifax Yorkshire View Record Jonathan Hoyle abt 1801 Yorkshire, England Halifax Yorkshire View Record Ruth Hoyle abt 1826 Yorkshire, England Halifax Yorkshire View Record Sarah Hoyle abt 1826 Yorkshire, England Halifax Yorkshire Hope that helps anyway!! It's good to make progress isn't it?! Hope you had a good night's sleep - I'm off now too! :-) Jenny

1851 - seems to be the original couple. Not sure about the name for the father - could be Esaw?? Elizabeth Hoyle abt 1850 Ovenden, Yorkshire, England Daughter Ovenden Yorkshire View Record Essa Hoyle abt 1824 Ovenden, Yorkshire, England Head Ovenden Yorkshire View Record Mary Hoyle abt 1828 Ovenden, Yorkshire, England Wife Ovenden Yorkshire

1871 John Brown abt 1828 Howarth, Yorkshire, England Head Ovenden Yorkshire View Record Mary Brown abt 1828 Ovenden, Yorkshire, England Wife Ovenden Yorkshire View Record Elizabeth Hoyle abt 1850 Ovenden, Yorkshire, England Daughter Ovenden Yorkshire View Record Sarah Hoyle abt 1857 Ovenden, Yorkshire, England Daughter Ovenden Yorkshire

Hi Carole, I've been looking for a little while and unfortunately there are 3 Sarahs about the correct era born in Ovenden. I've tried to follow them on freebmd and census but can't but can't be sure as it's a fairly common name in the Halifax area. From what I can see, and with your Haworth connection I think this is the family in 1871 and 1861. You would have to get Sarah's marriage cert to John Wrathall - this could either have her father or step father's name on it depending what she knew as she grew up (though with different surnames I suspect she would have known). You would then have to look for marriage and deaths for him to the wife from these returns. 1861 Betty Brown abt 1851 Ovenden, Yorkshire, England Daughter Ovenden Yorkshire View Record John Brown abt 1827 Hannah, Yorkshire, England Head Ovenden Yorkshire View Record Jonathan Brown abt 1854 Ovenden, Yorkshire, England Son Ovenden Yorkshire View Record Mary Brown abt 1828 Ovenden, Yorkshire, England Wife Ovenden Yorkshire View Record Mary Brown abt 1852 Ovenden, Yorkshire, England Daughter Ovenden Yorkshire View Record John Hoyle abt 1854 Ovenden, Yorkshire, England Stepson Ovenden Yorkshire View Record Sarah Hoyle abt 1857 Ovenden, Yorkshire, England Stepdaughter Ovenden Yorkshire View Record Elizabeth Hoyles abt 1850 Ovenden, Yorkshire, England Stepdaughter Ovenden Yorkshire (image says bp Haworth for John Brown)

Jenny Am off to bed now - 'fraid I'm nearly at that age when my children will soon be puting me to bed. It's GMT + 1 hour where I live However, I will check back in the morning... Carole

Ah g grandad was a mystery man. He's on the 1881 census (John Hoyle born 1878 Gisburn/Paythorne) living with a couple called William and Jane Firth. He's down as 'nephew' but as we know this doesn't necesarily mean he was. He's still with them in 1891 - down as 'adopted son'. By 1901 he's taken up the name 'John Firth''. . I have a newspaper article on him - he was one of the first esperantists in which he tells a cock and bull story about his father being killed in abysinnia - he could tell a good story. Incidentally, the Firths retired to Haworth. There is also a family story that someone in the family was educated by Charlotte Bronte at her village school in Haworth. Carole

Carol - I'll come back. I have to put the children to bed now but will have a look for Sarah pre 1881 ASAP!! Jenny

Thanks Jenny Can I also bother you for Sarah pre 1881 if possible I've been wondering about her for 5 yeas now - wasn't till I inherited a photo of her recently and it had the name 'grandma and grandpa wrathall' on the back that the penny dropped. I'd been looking for Sarah Cartwrights! Carole

Glad you've found them! You probably don't want all that stuff on Wrathall's I've just remembered they aren't the connection!! Got a bit too excited there!! She was a bit naughty wasn't she!! What happened to your gr grandfather? Who did he live with? Happy Hunting Jenny :-)

In 1871 Agnes Wrathall abt 1828 Thornton in Lonsdale, Westmorland, England Wife Steeton with Eastburn Yorkshire View Record Alice Wrathall abt 1862 Kildwick, Yorkshire, England Daughter Steeton with Eastburn Yorkshire View Record Ann Wrathall abt 1868 Kildwick, Yorkshire, England Daughter Steeton with Eastburn Yorkshire View Record Edward Wrathall abt 1823 Thronton in Lonsdale, Yorkshire, England Head Steeton with Eastburn Yorkshire View Record Elizabeth Wrathall abt 1856 Liverpool, Lancashire, England Daughter Steeton with Eastburn Yorkshire View Record Francis Wrathall abt 1870 Kildwick, Yorkshire, England Son Steeton with Eastburn Yorkshire View Record James Wrathall abt 1852 Melling, Lancashire, England Son Steeton with Eastburn Yorkshire View Record Jane E Wrathall abt 1851 Thornton in Lonsdale, Yorkshire, England Daughter Steeton with Eastburn Yorkshire View Record John Wrathall abt 1860 Thornton in Lonsdale, Yorkshire, England Son Steeton with Eastburn Yorkshire View Record Joseph Wrathall abt 1849 Thornton in Lonsdale, Yorkshire, England Son Steeton with Eastburn Yorkshire View Record William Wrathall abt 1854 Melling, Lancashire, England Son Steeton with Eastburn Yorkshire

1861 - they have already moved to Steeton Agnes Wrathall abt 1826 Warton, Lancashire, England Wife Steeton with Eastburn Yorkshire View Record Edward Wrathall abt 1822 Thornton in Lonsdale, Yorkshire, England Head Steeton with Eastburn Yorkshire View Record Elizabeth Wrathall abt 1856 Liverpool, Lancashire, England Daughter Steeton with Eastburn Yorkshire View Record James Wrathall abt 1852 Melling, Lancashire, England Son Steeton with Eastburn Yorkshire View Record Jane E Wrathall abt 1851 Thornton in Lonsdale, Yorkshire, England Daughter Steeton with Eastburn Yorkshire View Record John Wrathall abt 1860 Thornton in Lonsdale, Yorkshire, England Son Steeton with Eastburn Yorkshire View Record Joseph Wrathall abt 1849 Thornton in Lonsdale, Yorkshire, England Son Steeton with Eastburn Yorkshire View Record William Wrathall abt 1854 Melling, Lancashire, England Son Steeton with Eastburn Yorkshire

Oh Jenny I've gone all tingly, I'm so chuffed! Wait till I tell the rest of the family that Sarah was a very naughty girl and had two children over t'broom. Carole

You've cracked it!! John is a 'wheelwright' in 1891! Bentham is reasonable - it is further up the dales, above Settle, near the Lancashire border. Westhouse is just a few miles away and probably would be registered as Bentham (in Settle RD). The family may well have moved from here for work.

Brilliant Jenny Looks like we're on the right track.. thank you, thank you :-)))))))

Hmm Just checked out the 1881 on the LDS site: this is the only John Wrathall I can find Edward WRATHALL Head M Male 58 Bentham, York, England Carter Sarah Agnes WRATHALL Wife M Female 53 Priest Hutton P Wharton, Westmorland, England John WRATHALL Son U Male 21 Bentham, York, England Cart Wright Mary Alice WRATHALL Daur U Female 19 Steeton Kildwick, York, England Worsted Weaver Ann WRATHALL Daur Female 13 Steeton Kildwick, York, England Scholar Francis WRATHALL Son Male 11 Steeton Kildwick, York, England Scholar Minnie STENTON Boarder Female 6 Steeton Kildwick, York, England Scholar Elizabeth BROWN Daur M Female 24 Liverpool, Lancashire, England Worsted Weaver Henry BROWN Grand Son Male 1 Steeton Kildwick, York, England Carry BROWN Grand Daur Female 1 m Steeton Kildwick, York, England The reason I like this one is because my Mum says sarah married someone by the name of Cartwright. I know this isn't true but look at this John's profession. Do you think this is the same John as on the other census? do you know where Bentham is? Carole

Strike that!! Rose is Sarah's daughter - here they are in 1881 in Bracewell. Rose Ellen Hoyle abt 1880 Howorth, Yorkshire, England Daughter Bracewell Yorkshire Sarah Hoyle abt 1857 Ovenden, Yorkshire, England Head Bracewell Yorkshire

There is this death which would fit with your theory of Rose being the daughter of a first wife (if they were married!) Deaths Mar 1882 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Wrathall Mary Alice 20 Keighley 9a 150

No jenny, that's the whole problem. On my g grandfather's birth cert there is only her name, no age, profession etc. I think I might check backwards to the 1881 to see what this particular Sarah was up to then - presuming I've got the right couple - I'm working more through a process of elimination/trying to find straws to clutch at Carole

Thanks again Jenny Rose might not be sarah's daughter Wonder if John was married before? G granndfather has a surviving daughter, these names might jolt her memory. Carole