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Kath, This is exactly the sort of thing I mean ... that generation were ashamed of their origins, nowadays at best they'd get sympathy and at worst nobody minds! So, you've clearly been on quite a trail too! Regs Jane

Jane, My grandfather always maintained that he was born in Co. Durham, as that is where he lived most of his life. Says Co. Durham on his army records too. He was in fact born in a workhouse in Southwark, London. He was also baptised in Southwark, which he must have known about because when he was 65 he sent off to the church for a copy of his baptism certificate (which actually has a different surname.....but that's another story!!!!!) Kath. x

Tracy & Kath, Thanks for your further musings ... whilst 'abducted by aliens' is an expression I was close to using, I find your thoughts much more practical! Perhaps we should approach this from the other way around - maybe I could get into the Marylebone Reg Office and look at ALL birth registrations on or around 23rd May 1859 and see if there's a George William of any surname! I have had the thought that he might have been illegitimate and brought up in an orphanage .. but then again, he'd show up clearly (one hopes) on either 1861 or 1871 Censuses. I wonder why in later life he is so sure he was born in Marylebone and states his age so consistently - another one of mine was concealing a wayward mother and his age ... no one else is so consistent apart from the 'liars'!! Thanks ladies! Regs Jane x PS: Will report back when we run him to ground!

There is this William Sandy on the 1861 census. His middle initial is given as C, but it could be a G. His age is given as 2 months but that could be a mistake for 2 years. His birthplace is given as Lanreath, Cornwall, which would come under the Liskeard district. Ann Ede abt 1806 Broadoak, Cornwall, England Servant Lanreath Cornwall Peter Hicks abt 1800 Lanreath, Cornwall, England Head Lanreath Cornwall Jane A Sandy abt 1841 Lanreath, Cornwall, England Boarder Lanreath Cornwall ***William C Sandy ***abt 1861 Lanreath, Cornwall, England Boarder Lanreath Cornwall This is probably making too many assumptions, but just a thought. Kath. x

Another thought - he wasn't registered in 1859/60, and his mother remarried, so on the early censuses, he's down under her new name instead of his real name! (it happens a lot in my family lol) When he ''came of age'', her reverted back to his real name.

Tracy, I didn't know about registration not being compulsory till 1875 - that's late .... guess he could well have slipped under the wires then. Thank you for that interesting fact - something else to bore my non-genealogically minded friends with!! Many thanks to every one who has contributed to my research today - and happy Christmas to you all! Jane x

Here's a thought - registration wasn't compulsory until 1875, so perhaps they didn't register him? Still doesn't explain why he doesn't appear until 1881 though lol

Reg, The family bible STARTS with George William SANDY - so not much help there! I imagine it was his wife who started it ... judging by others we have in the family. Good question and great thought though!! Jxx

Wow! You lot are HOT today ... I can't keep up with you all! 1. Clerkenwell George and Marylebone George are two different people. 2. Marylebone George may only think he was born there - he could well have slipped up the A30 (or whatever it was then) to London and ignored his potentially Cornish place of birth. Cornish birth cert on order! Jx

Jane, If you order the certificate, you could always give 'George' as the father's name as a checking point, then you will only get the certificate if his father IS George. However the father's occupation could have changed between the son's birth and marriage, so it may not say carpenter in any case. Kath. x

Oh Kath, I didn't mean you to use up credits looking for my dozy lot of ancestors .... but thank you very much indeed! We'll order the birth certificate and find out if his father was indeed 'George-the-Carpenter'! You are very kind indeed ... and I shall owe yet another favour when I next get to Kew! Kind regards - and merry Xmas, Jane xxxxxxxxxxx

Ahh well... on a side note, I'd love to know how Smith sounds like Sandy lol I can't find anyone else that looks like him.

hi Jane perhaps you should order that one in Cornwall perhaps he didn't realise he came from Cornwall as perhaps as a baby moved to London Jeanette

Jane What other listings do you have in the Bible? Perhaps some of those will hold a clue................ Reg Tracy.......thanks for posting the census info; we have stated birthplace now.

Tracy, Thanks, but no thanks - he belongs to another line and sadly expires before his time in 1888! Too many Georges .... Jx

Have now looked on 1837online for the June qtr. of 1858 and 1859 and the William George from Cornwall is the only William George or George William Sandy born in either of those two qtrs. Kath. x

1871... a maybe... Elizabeth Sandy abt 1794 Norfolk, England Head Islington London George D Sandy abt 1835 Clerkenwell, Middlesex, England Son Islington London (Shoemaker) Maria Sandy abt 1838 Hornary, Middlesex, England Daughter-in-law Islington London >> George Sandy abt 1862 Clerkenwell, Middlesex, England Grandson Islington London Maria L Sandy abt 1864 Clerkenwell, Middlesex, England Granddaughter Islington London Ellen Sandy abt 1866 Clerkenwell, Middlesex, England Granddaughter Islington London Harry C Sandy abt 1867 Clerkenwell, Middlesex, England Grandson Islington London Harriet Rees abt 1816 Clerkenwell, Middlesex, England Daughter Islington London

Tracy Sorry - you seem to have got sucked into this one! You'll see we have him in 1881, 1891 and 1901 - it's going backwards that we have the problem with! Any sight of him in 1871 or 1861? Regs Jane x

Reg I've checked FreeBMD - assume the transcribers just haven't reached my man yet! Also, we've looked at Censuses - but can't find him in 1861 or 1871. In 1881,1891 and 1901, he is in London and is basically a tailor. Our problem is 'placing' him in his birth family ... on his 2nd marriage in 1901, he states his father's name to be George and father's occupation as carpenter. Any further ideas? Regs Jane

For reference... 1901 George W Sandy abt 1860 St Marylebone, Middlesex, England Head Kensington London 1891 Sandy, Geo Wm abt 1860 Marylebone, London, England Head Kensington London 1881 Geo. W. Sandy abt 1860 London, Middlesex, England Lodger 14 Stalham Street, Paddington, London, England