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Just bear with me will I put in the details..... Selena

I am trying to establish a connection between two families, BATEMAN and RANOE. Mainly because they always seem to be together for at least 20 years and also that two of the males are deaf. They are witness at marriage, informant at death, and earlier on living next door to each other. A son from both families is Deaf. Could this be a hereditary condition. Working back in time: 1881 census Jane RANVE (age 60) husband Richard (58) and family living at 5 Nile Cottages, Deptford 1871 Deaths of William BATEMAN (age 35) informant Jane RAYNOE. William living 20 Knotts Terrace, Deptford, 1871 census Jane RANOE (AGE 47), husband Richard RANOE, (45) and family living 5 Nile Cottages Deptford 1861 census Jane RANOE (b1822), husband Richard RANOE (b1826) and family – don’t have address. 1859 Marriage of William BATEMAN, witnesses Richard and Jane Louise RANOE 1851 census (St Oliver is St Olaves) address Essex Place, Deptford Ann Bateman abt 1848 St George Daughter Lewisham Kent Jane Bateman abt 1811 St Oliver, Surrey, England Head Lewisham Kent Maria Bateman abt 1843 St Oliver Daughter Lewisham Kent William Bateman abt 1836 St Oliver Son Lewisham Kent, DEAF And next door to them………. Sarah RANOE, head, 62 widow, charwoman, Richard RANOE, son, 26, labourer, DEAF I hope this makes sense. It helped me get it straight by writing it down. Thanks for reading it! Selena

Maybe friends and neigbours - stuck together because of the common link - the boys deafness

Yes, that's what I was going to say!! Also, though, you could get Richard R's marriage and see if that helps at all?? Marriages Jun 1851 RANOE Richard Greenwich 5 307 Also, with both fathers names from the two marriage certs (Richard R's and William Bateman's) you are in a good position to find the maiden names of the two mothers by finding the parents marriages......Maybe that will be your eureka moment?? But I still think the deafness might be what brought the families together. Remember deafness was far more common in those days (so less need for their to be a family tie)....for one thing, no reubella vaccine :o(( Merry

Who did William Ranoe marry please? Possibly a sister of Jane? where were Jane & Richard in the 1851 census? Look forward to trying to help you solve this puzzle Sarah

Thanks. I've ordered Ann Bateman's birth cert to estabish William's parents as I can't find anything for William's birth. If that doesn't throw any light I will order Richard's. Thanks for finding that marriage reference - I had missed that completely!!! Help much appreciated, Selena

he married either a Jane Willougby or a Mary Goody

Thanks Sarah. Richard Ranoe seems to be with his mum Sarah in the 1851 at Essex Place Deptford (William Bateman living next door). Looks like Richard married Jane in 1851 - off to have a look on familysearch. William Bateman married into the Perkins family - no known connections there as the Perkins came from Hampstead. Thanks, Selena

Bad news. Got this reply from my order of Ann Bateman's birth cert. Thank you for your recent application for the birth certificate of Ann Bateman. The reference supplied was 1849 June Rotherhithe 4 451. Unfortunately, this reference does not appear to relate to the entry you are seeking because her parent's names are not William & Jane. Therefore,we are unable to issue a certificate. On William's marriage cert in 1859, he gives his father as William James Bateman. Not sure what to do next. Off out for a few hours, so not being rude if anyone responds. Selena

Found this Ancestral file baptism - could it be William's sister? Ann BATEMAN (AFN: 215N-J5) Pedigree Sex: F Family Event(s): Birth: 18 Mar 1847 Bermondsey, London, Engl Death: 11 Apr 1910 Parents: Father: James William John BATEMAN (AFN: BKF9-VK) Family Mother: Jane Louisa JOHNSON (AFN Could someone have got William James round the wrong way - i.e. on young William marriage cert in 1859? Is this the answer or am I clutching at straws here? Selena

I would get a copy of the christening... ANN BATEMAN - International Genealogical Index Gender: Female Birth: 18 MAR 1847 Bermondsey, London, England ANN BATEMAN - International Genealogical Index Gender: Female Christening: 23 MAY 1847 Saint Mary Magdalene, Bermondsey, London, England Christening just says James and Louisa on here. I did find this.... JANE LOUISA JOHNSON -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Marriages: Spouse: JAMES WILLIAM JOHN BATEMAN Marriage: 18 AUG 1834 Spitalfields Christ Church, Stepney, London, England Extracted from source. Brother? ALFRED THOMAS BATEMAN Birth: Christening: 23 NOV 1845 Saint Mary Magdalene, Bermondsey, London, England -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Parents: Father: JAMES BATEMAN Mother: JANE

This must be connected somehow, but how? RICHARD PHILLIPS RANOE Male -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Event(s): Birth: 21 SEP 1851 Christening: 07 MAY 1854 Saint Mary, Lewisham, Kent, England Death: Burial: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Parents: Father: RICHARD RANOE Family Mother: JANE LOUISA Can't find their marriage just at the minute, but that Jane Louisa can't be a coincidence can it? Kate.

Okay, in a nutshell my theory is that Jane Louisa Bateman, nee Johnson, married Richard Ranoe after she was widowed, and then she knocked a few years off her age to confuse us. It would need somebody to check for a Jane Louisa Bateman marriage entry in Jun 1851 to match that Richard Ranoe one, but I have to go and get the kids from school now so I don't have time (as it may mean going through the images on FreeBMD). Or possibley William and Jane Bateman had a daughter named after her mother who added a few years to her age? Can't remember all the dates so don't know if this version is possible. Kate.

Kate, just back from getting the girls myself. Off to digest your theory (hadn't thought of that at all). Getting a bit muddled, Thanks for the help Selena

Kate, I think Richard Ranoe you found for 1851 was Jane and Richard's son (witnesses at William Bateman's marriage),. Feel like I'm Going round in circles! Selena

Ricahrd's address in 1861 is 2 Holdsworth's Rents - clear in description of District 13. Jim

Thanks Jim - is that in Deptford or Rotherhithe? William Bateman was at Collier St Deptford in 61. Thank you Selena

Deptford Jim

Disappointed to see nobody has looked through the images on FreeBMD yet, anyway, I'm having a look now... back when I find or don't find it.. Kate.

IGI also has this christening. Same date as Richard Phillips Ranoe - above. IGI Individual Record FamilySearch™ International Genealogical Index v5.0 British Isles Search Results | Download | Pedigree -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- JOHN JAMES RANOE Male -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Event(s): Birth: 26 MAR 1854 Christening: 07 MAY 1854 Saint Mary, Lewisham, Kent, England Death: Burial: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Parents: Father: RICHARD RANOE Family Mother: JANE LOUISA Jim