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Think you could be right on that Susan, maybe her real mother died??? Worth checking. Will look later x

I thought at first glance that I was reading a serial marriage/a mormon style. You two ladies have your work cut out on this one. Have you searched to see if she was adopted or born to a 'sister who later became the 'aunt' etc.? x

alice carlill born to elizabeth carlill 17 12 1898 no fethers name when elizabeth met albert evans in 1901 he marries her but doesnt want 2 year old alice so she is given away to elizabeths sister annie who marries john william boothby andthey give alice a new bithdate 21 5 1900 this is all guess work and not proven as they didnt get married until 1908 its the boothby s that are really puzzling 28 61908 john william boothy 27 bachelor keelmanof york st hull father george boothby deceased marries annie carlill 25 spinsterof york st father thomas carlill at st silas church hull witness s wererobert boothby annie elizabeth boothy 15 10 1921 alice carlill age 21 spinster of 19 grahams row hull father john william boothby [carlill] deceased labourer marries ernest garfitt at redgister office witness s j w boothby and a boothby HOW DO ALL THE BOOTHBYS TIE IN thank you all so much for all your help thanks to the lovely LAURA FOR PUTTING ME ON THE straight and narrow and all you SUPER people who are helping regards a NEWBIE

It still seems likely to me that the Alice Carlill who was born in 1898 is not the same one, but I realise you can't find any other birth registration for her. But something you could try is to look through the indexes for a death or marriage of the 'other' Alice Carlill. Perhaps not as easy as it sounds, though. Kate.

Alice was 21 when she married!

i CANT SEE ANY ALTERNATIVE BIRTHS FOR aLICE UNDER cARLILL, bOOTHBY OR eVANS. Will have to assume that her birth in 1898 is correct??? Laura x

I have looked at the marriage on 1837 in 1908 and it does say Annie Elizabeth. The definite stuff is.... Alices marriage certificate as it is to Susans grandad, so her father is definitely given as John Boothby. Thats it really I suppose. Have mailed Susan again to see how old Alice was when she married to check the birth details are correct. If Alice was born 1898 that makes her mum 15! If you also go by the marriage to John Boothby. Will look for alternative births for Alice, thanks for all your help, Laura xxx

And just to really confuse matters, look at this: Marriages Mar 1908 --------------------------------------------------------------------- BOOTHBY John William Sculcoates 9d 202 EMERSON Henry Sculcoates 9d 202 HARVEY Ada Sculcoates 9d 202 ROBINSON Alice Maude Sculcoates 9d 202 In the previous quarter to the John William Boothby / Annie Carlill marriage (also at Sculcoates)! By the way, you are certain her name is given as Annie Elizabeth on the marriage cert, aren't you, because according to FreeBMD it is just Annie Carlill on the index: Marriages Jun 1908 ------------------------------------------------------------------ Boothby John William Sculcoates 9d 408 CARLILL Annie Sculcoates 9d 408 Harrison Abraham Sculcoates 9d 408 REVELL Kate Sculcoates 9d 408 Kate.

Looks as though the John Boothby above will be the right one, as I have found this birth on FreeBMD: Births Dec 1879 --------------------------------------------------------------------- Boothby John William Lincoln 7a 521 but Susan should get the certificate and see if the mother's name was Charlotte to see if the family on the 1881 census is the right one. Especially as there is also this one, although the age on the marriage certificate doesn't match: Births Sep 1883 ------------------------------------------------------------------ BOOTHBY John William Sculcoates 9d 124 Kate.

Laura - I really think there are two different families of Carlills here. As I said before, the Alice Carlill whose birth details you gave may not be the same one whose marriage cert you quoted. Having seen all the rest of the data people have found, I think the answer to your question about why Alice's mother sometimes called herself Annie and sometimes Elizabeth could be because they are two completely different people! If Annie / Elizabeth Carlill married Albert Evans and then married John Boothby, her name would have been Annie / Elizabeth Evans on the registration of the second marriage. What was Annie's marital status when she married John Boothby? As for John Boothby, I'll have a look now and see if I can find anything. (As you can probably tell, I'm getting confused between Annie and Elizabeth now!) Kate.

Those Boothbys fit in with the Keelman theory, on boats and would put John in Yorkshire, probably Hull for his marriage. L x

This John's Parents are George and Charlotte. 1881 England Census Alice Boothby abt 1866 Lincoln, Lincoln, England Unknown 'Mizpah', Vessels, Yorkshire, England Amelia Boothby abt 1868 Lincoln, Lincoln, England Unknown 'Mizpah', Vessels, Yorkshire, England Charlotte Boothby abt 1833 Lincoln, Lincoln, England Unknown 'Mizpah', Vessels, Yorkshire, England George Boothby abt 1834 Lincoln, Lincoln, England Unknown 'Mizpah', Vessels, Yorkshire, England John Boothby abt 1879 Lincoln, Lincoln, England Unknown 'Mizpah', Vessels, Yorkshire, England Joseph Boothby abt 1872 Lincoln, Lincoln, England Unknown 'Mizpah', Vessels, Yorkshire, England Louise Boothby abt 1877 Lincoln, Lincoln, England Unknown 'Mizpah', Vessels, Yorkshire, England Robert Boothby abt 1874 Lincoln, Lincoln, England Unknown 'Mizpah', Vessels, Yorkshire, England James Kinnersley abt 1861 Lincoln, Lincoln, England Unknown 'Mizpah', Vessels, Yorkshire, England

Just clicked on to what you mean Jim, looks like she married the boss!!! So she was Elizabeth in census, daughters birth and first marriage, wonder why it was Annie in 1908 marriage? Especially as her sister was Annie. The Annies year of birth matches better to the Boothby marriage and its the right first name.

The families in the census look right. she married in 1908 to John W Boothby as Annie Elizabeth, even though on daughters birth she was Elizabeth. Its more the Boothbys that are the problem, John's dad was george Boothby, couldnt see a John with a father George. L x

Thomas and family in 1881, The only Thomas Carlill I can find in Lincolnshire. 1881 England Census Annie Carlill abt 1879 Lincoln, England Daughter 8 Lark Lane, Lincoln, Lincolnshire, England Catherine Carlill abt 1856 Stamford, Lincoln, England Wife 8 Lark Lane, Lincoln, Lincolnshire, England Edward Carlill abt 1870 Lincoln, England Son 8 Lark Lane, Lincoln, Lincolnshire, England Elizabeth Carlill abt 1877 Lincoln, England Daughter 8 Lark Lane, Lincoln, Lincolnshire, England Jane Carlill abt 1875 Lincoln, England Daughter 8 Lark Lane, Lincoln, Lincolnshire, England Thomas Carlill abt 1849 Lincoln, England Head 8 Lark Lane, Lincoln, Lincolnshire, England

This Thomas Carlill has daughters Annie and Elizabeth. 1891 England Census Carlill, Annie abt 1878 Lincoln, Lincolnshire, England Daughter Gainsborough Lincolnshire Carlill, Catherine abt 1855 Stamford, Lincolnshire, England Wife Gainsborough Lincolnshire Carlill, Catherine abt 1888 Gainsborough, Lincolnshire, England Daughter Gainsborough Lincolnshire Carlill, Elizabeth abt 1876 Lincoln, Lincolnshire, England Daughter Gainsborough Lincolnshire Carlill, Frederick abt 1886 Gainsborough, Lincolnshire, England Son Gainsborough Lincolnshire Carlill, Henry abt 1884 Lincoln, Lincolnshire, England Son Gainsborough Lincolnshire Carlill, Jane abt 1874 Lincoln, Lincolnshire, England Daughter Gainsborough Lincolnshire Carlill, Sophia abt 1882 Lincoln, Lincolnshire, England Daughter Gainsborough Lincolnshire Carlill, Thomas abt 1849 Lincoln, Lincolnshire, England Head Gainsborough Lincolnshire Carlill, Thomas abt 1880 Lincoln, Lincolnshire, England Son Gainsborough Lincolnshire

This looks very much the couple from 1901 Blythman, Frances Elizabeth 1901 June Marriages Gainsborough Lincolnshire Nottinghamshire Carlill, Elizabeth 1901 June Marriages Gainsborough Lincolnshire Nottinghamshire Drury, John William 1901 June Marriages Gainsborough Lincolnshire Nottinghamshire Evans, Albert Edward 1901 June Marriages Gainsborough Lincolnshire Nottinghamshire

Its strange that Alice thought she was 2 years older than she was, what do you think about that?

Thanks, I've mailed Susan to ask about the fathers name. L x

1901 census Alice Carlill abt 1899 Gainsborough, Lincolnshire, England Boarder Gainsborough Lincolnshire Elizabeth Carlill abt 1879 Lincolnshire, England Servant Gainsborough Lincolnshire Albert Evans abt 1879 Gainsborough, Lincolnshire, England Head Gainsborough Lincolnshire xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx just a possible Carlill, Elizabeth 1876 June Births Lincoln Lincolnshire