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I have my great grandfathers - Thomas Bowling - death certificates and marraige certificates. Married 1892 to Alice Gibbs (certificate states his father - deceased - as James Bowling). Death certificate 1900 aged 36. He was I assume born in 1864. No matter where I look, I cannot find an entry of his birth (and I do look at 1863 and 1865 also). I also look at the James Bowlings just incase he changed his birth name. Am I barking up the wrong tree, because obviously if I cannot find his birth, I cannot go back any further than this. Can anyone tell me what I am doing wrong. Lisa Jones

Have you looked for him on any of the census' Lisa, if you dont have access let me know what area and I will have a look for you. Audrey

Lisa You probably aren't doing anything wrong. Sometimes the indexes have errors, and sometimes information is missed. Have you got Thomas Bowling on a census anywhere which would help confirm his year of birth and give a birthplace? If not, where did he get married? What was his and his father James' occupations? nell

Yes, I have ancestry.co.uk membership, and keep looking on there on the various census years. On Thomas's marraige certificate it says that his father James was a fisherman. Thomas's widow Alice and their three children Thomas, Carrie and Alice were living in London St Lukes on the 1901 census, with Alice's parents. If James was a fisherman, I would think that they were probably not originally from that area (not great fishing in the East End!

In fact, no I cannot even find Thomas on the 1891 Census.

Does the age on his marriage cert tie up with his death cert? Where was his death registered? Did he have a second name recorded on either? Jess x married in Holborn- 1892-

Hi - are these his marriage/death details Married in Holborn Bowling, Thomas 1892 December Marriages Holborn London Middlesex Gibbs, Alice 1892 December Marriages Holborn London Middlesex Died West Ham Name: Bowling, Thomas Record Type: Deaths Age at death: 36 Quarter: June Year: 1900 District: West Ham County: Essex Greater London Volume: 4a Page: 83

Jess - yes his marraige certificate 1892 says he was 28, and his death certificate in 1900 says he was 36 - both of these put his birth at 1864. His death certificate is interesting in that the cause of death was 'syncope due to rupture of anuerism', and he died at the India Rubber Works in Silvertown West Ham.

Were all the children born in London too? jess

Katy, yes that's him alright!

Jess - the children were all born in Essex Silvertown. Lisa

which of these, if any , have you investigated? BOWLING, Thomas 1862 December Births Chorley Lancashire BOWLING, Thomas Henry 1862 March Births Blackburn Lancashire BOWLING, Thomas Osborn 1864 June Births Cardiff (1837-1974) Glamorgan Monmouthshire BOWLING, Thomas Smith 1862 June Births Sculcoates East Riding of Yorkshire BOWLING, Tom 1862 December Births Thorne Lincolnshire West Riding of Yorkshire BOWLING, Tom 1862 December Births Barnsley West Riding of Yorkshire

You say you can't find him in 1891 - there are 4 reasonable Bowling, Thomas abt 1865 Leyland, Lancashire Head Blackburn Lancashire Bowling, Thomas abt 1863 Leyland, Lancashire Head Leyland Lancashire Bowling, Thomas abt 1866 Longworth, Lancashire Son Over Darwen Lancashire Bowling, Thomas S abt 1862 Hull, Yorkshire Head Islington London <<-- Good fishing in Hull, i would have thought ^ Looking at that last one, he IS head, but wiith a sister Sarah.......are they worth taking back to see if father with the right name pops up?

Jess, I've written them all down (they all ring bells, but my brain's gone fuzzy over the months of looking), and am going to have a look at them all now. Am I trying to find mostly a father named James?

Gone back with Thomas S - no sarah , but his father is ...Thomas S too

I think the chap from Hull had a father called Thomas (1871)... Couple of James' here born Holborn / St Pancra - the son is of age to have fathered Thomas (but he's a clerk in 1861) Name Estimated Birth Year Birthplace Relationship Civil Parish County --------------------------------------------------------- Ann Bowling abt 1812 Arkesdown, Essex, England Wife St Mary Woolchurch Middlesex James Bowling abt 1818 Holborn, Middlesex, England Head St Mary Woolchurch Middlesex +->James L Bowling abt 1844 St Pancras, Middlesex, England Son St Mary Woolchurch Middlesex Mary Shelvey abt 1844 Ramsgate, Kent, England Visitor St Mary Woolchurch Middlesex Nope, that 1844 James has a son James too by 1881. Name Estimated Birth Year Birthplace Relationship Residence ---------------------------------------------------------- +->James Bowling abt 1844 St Pancras, Middlesex, England Head 153 Albert Road, Camberwell, London, England James Bowling abt 1878 Camberwell, Surrey, England Son 153 Albert Road, Camberwell, London, England Lucy A. Bowling abt 1875 Deptford, Kent, England Daughter 153 Albert Road, Camberwell, London, England Rhoda Bowling abt 1844 Chatters, Cambridgeshire, England Wife 153 Albert Road, Camberwell, London, England John Major abt 1864 Seaford, Sussex, England Visitor 153 Albert Road, Camberwell, London, England

Is this a possible, mistranscribed? Individual Record 1881 British Census Thomas ROWEN Household Male Other Information: Birth Year <1864> Birthplace London, London, Middlesex, England Age 17 Occupation Scholar Marital Status Head of Household Thomas ROWEN Relation Inmate Disability Source Information: Institution 'Plasket Reformatory Schools' Eastham Census Place East Ham, Essex, England Family History Library Film 1341413 Public Records Office Reference RG11 Piece / Folio 1724 / 175 Page Number 2

Jess, at one point I did think Thomas S (with Sarah) had chances, but also found his father had the wrong name. Lisa

Think i would start 1871, looking for the head (father) , and children with the right name There are 16 in 1871.. Go thru and search?Then follow up all the Sons called thomas? Jess

Found 1 so far.. Henry Bowling abt 1858 Whittle, Lancashire, England Son Levenshulme Lancashire Isabella Bowling abt 1870 Levenshulme, Lancashire, England Daughter Levenshulme Lancashire James Bowling abt 1829 Whittle, Lancashire, England Head Levenshulme Lancashire James Bowling abt 1868 Whittle, Lancashire, England Son Levenshulme Lancashire John Bowling abt 1857 Whittle, Lancashire, England Son Levenshulme Lancashire Margaret Bowling abt 1830 Whittle, Lancashire, England Wife Levenshulme Lancashire Thomas Bowling abt 1860 Whittle, Lancashire, England Son Levenshulme Lancashire William Bowling abt 1854 Whittle, Lancashire, England Son Levenshulme Lancashire John Fishwick abt 1846 Whittle, Lancashire, England Nephew Levenshulme Lancashire Peter Fishwick abt 1847 Whittle, Lancashire, England Nephew Levenshulme Lancashire 2nd one.. Caroline Bowling abt 1828 Henley, Oxfordshire, England Wife Henley Oxfordshire Henry Bowling abt 1853 Henley, Oxfordshire, England Son Henley Oxfordshire James Bowling abt 1823 Henley, Oxfordshire, England Head Henley Oxfordshire James Bowling abt 1856 Henley, Oxfordshire, England Son Henley Oxfordshire Thomas Bowling abt 1861 Henley, Oxfordshire, England Son Henley Oxfordshire *who were the witnessses to the marriage.?