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Yeah thanks so much, you've sorted out in half an hour what i've been trying to do for 7 days! Thanks for everything Sarah

Right, copy and paste that lot into a word document..or write it down and then you can see the gaps and where you need to go next. can you see the wood for the trees now? jess

Yes they are;1881 Arthur Meadon abt 1863 Newcastle, Staffordshire, England Son 1 North Street, Newcastle Under Lyme, Staffordshire, England Elizabeth Meadon abt 1835 Newcastle, Staffordshire, England Wife 1 North Street, Newcastle Under Lyme, Staffordshire, England Helen Meadon abt 1861 Newcastle, Staffordshire, England Daughter 1 North Street, Newcastle Under Lyme, Staffordshire, England Josiah Meadon abt 1835 Newcastle, Staffordshire, England Head 1 North Street, Newcastle Under Lyme

That's josiah and elizabeth's eldest son william and his family, the william jr must be the one that was living with josiah and elizabeth as grandson in the 1891 census Actually i meant the arthur who's living with them in the 1891 census, damn my brain

1881 - featuring Arthur with the said mum and dad , i hope Eliza Lowndes abt 1842 Cheadle, Staffordshire, England Visitor 20 North Street, Newcastle Under Lyme, Staffordshire, England William Lowndes abt 1880 Rocester, Staffordshire, England Visitor 20 North Street, Newcastle Under Lyme, Staffordshire, England Arthur Meado abt 1878 Newcastle, Staffordshire, England Son 20 North Street, Newcastle Under Lyme, Staffordshire, England Elizabeth Meado abt 1854 Cheadle, Staffordshire, England Wife 20 North Street, Newcastle Under Lyme, Staffordshire, England Elizabeth R. Meado abt 1879 Newcastle, Staffordshire, England Daughter 20 North Street, Newcastle Under Lyme, Staffordshire, England Infant Meado abt 1881 Newcastle, Staffordshire, England Daughter 20 North Street, Newcastle Under Lyme, Staffordshire, England William Meado abt 1857 Newcastle, Staffordshire, England Head 20 North Street, Newcastle Under Lyme, Staffordshire, England dad william? does that look right?

the 1881 census that iv'e got (familysearch by the mormons) says that arthur and helen were living at home in newcastle in 1 north road with their mum and dad

Does Arthur appear in 1881, have we that info here ? if not i'll have a look and hopefully he'll be with his ma and pa

That's helen's husband John Samuel Bate, (she must be the Ellen)

Jess Does it say who Arthur's (the grandson) parents are because as far as i know arthur(sr) didn't have a son called arthur. It could be helen's (arthurs sister).

and in 1901 his wife, now a widow is listed as M-in- law (and as that is in relation to the head, must be with one of the daughters) Dorothy E Bate 11 St Helens, Lancashire, England Daughter St Helen Lancashire Ellen Bate 40 Newcastle, Staffordshire, England Wife St Helen Lancashire Herbert J Bate 15 St Helens, Lancashire, England Son St Helen Lancashire John S Bate 42 St Helens, Lancashire, England Head St Helen Lancashire William A Bate 9 St Helens, Lancashire, England Son St Helen Lancashire Winifred H Bate 13 St Helens, Lancashire, England Daughter St Helen Lancashire >Elizabeth meadon (Unknown) 66 Trentham, Staffordshire, England Mother-in-law St Helen Lancashire Maud H Routledge 31 Liverpool, Lancashire, England Boarder St Helen Lancashire Annie sewards (Unknown) 38 Staleybridge, Cheshire, England Boarder St Helen Lancashire address 40 & 42 North rd .St Helens Lancs

Thanks to both of you, Sam and Jess, for sorting this out for me. You've been lots of help and now i know i haven't wasted a week researching the wrong family! Thanks again Sarah

going back to Josiah, in 1891 he's in Heap, with his wife Elizabeth Meadon, Arthur abt 1878 Newcastle, Staffordshire Grandson Heap Lancashire Meadon, Elizabeth abt 1835 Trentham, Staffordshire Wife Heap Lancashire Meadon, Josiah abt 1835 Newcastle, Staffordshire Head Heap Lancashire address 39 starkey St. Heap, lancs

Jess That's actually quite funny as we've had a few family arguments about which way round it was, my great aunt swears it's herbert william and my mum thinks it's william herbert, so i suppose both of them are right. I'll never hear the end of it because i thought he didn't exist! Thanks Sarah

Sam They could be living in rochdale or warrington in 1901. The twins were born in rochdale in 1897 and then nora was born in warrington in 1903. As for Josiah i found a josiah meadon who died in rochdale in 1896 aged 61 on lancashire bmd so he must have followed arthur there but stayed behind when they moved to warrington. I've never found any record of josiah's wife elizabeth dying there though.

1901 listed as meadoR Arthur Meador 38 Newcastle, Staffordshire, England Head Haydock Lancashire Elizabeth Meador 39 St Helens, Lancashire, England Wife Haydock Lancashire Herbert Wm Meador 14 St Helens, Lancashire, England Son Haydock Lancashire Lilian Meador 3 Carkton, Lancashire, England Daughter Haydock Lancashire Nellie Meador 7 Carkton, Lancashire, England Daughter Haydock Lancashire Looks like William Herbert like to be called Herbert William too!! address 115 church road.Haydock.Lancs

Sarah I'm still having trouble finding any of them in 1901! Sam

To Jess: Yes nellie is definately the one in Rochdale. I think the other ones are of the same family though. To Sam. That's them! thanks so much. We have been searching for this mythical older brother of nellie's called William Herbert but he hasn't shown up anywhere before the William H must be him. I didn't know they'd moved to St helens, they must have moved to rochdale shortly after. thanks again

1891: Arthur Meadon, 28, Engineere of sawyard, born Newcastle, Staffs Elizabeth Meadon, 30, born St Helens, Lancashire William H Meadon, 4, born St Helens, Lancashire Address is 49 Stanley Street, Heap, Heywood, Lancs Sam

Yes Sam i think that's them, I have only looked in the 1881 census and william's not there because he must have moved out by then. Thanks for that, is there any way you could look in a later census and try and find out about arthur. sorry if that's cheeky thanks again Sarah

hang on , hang on , we've only just started!! in reply to splitting it up, add the bulk of your message as a first reply, with only a word or two in the first box. I'm struggling to find Meadon in 1901.. anyone else? jess