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Hi I'm trying to find out what happened to my gt. gt. gt grandfather Robert Orr, his death cert says he" was stabbed in the heart with a knife" on19th July 1858 in Paisley where he lived,he was only about 33 and had 4 small children and his wife Marrion was pregnant!
I think he was buried in Canal St graveyard, which I believe is now called Castlehead , but I've come to a dead end.
I would be so grateful if any one out there could help me find out a little more. Could anyone who might visit this graveyard take a look for his grave or if any one has an idea as to where I might get some more info. for example can I find police records, I'm not even sure if the police were around at this time!!

Any help would be great!! Thanks for taking the time to read this.

Christine

Hi Christine,
Have you thought about checking the records office for that area to see if they hold old newspapers on microfilm/fiche? You might hit lucky there especially as you have a date to look.
They might be able to point you in the right direction for coroner records police records etc if they are accessable to the public (Not sure of this.)

Hi Helen,
I have tried the local newspapers, there are some newspapers availiable from the local library, but the library are not able to look up for you, so if any one could help with this I would be grateful. I can't find any access to official police records or the like
Thanks for taking the time to send your ideas, it is very kind of you!

Christine

You're welcome, I don't live anywhere near or I would myself. Good luck finding out. It's a fascinating if tragic story.
Best wishes

Just nudging this up for you so others can see it and be more help, hopefully.
x

how sad. just a thought how about having a letter printed in the local paper to where hes buried, someone who lives near may be kind and go look for you, never know some relative may read it too.

Have you read the lengthy article in The Times, Thursday, Jul 22, 1858; pg. 9; Issue 23052; col F "DISTRESSING OCCURRENCE"? It looks like his killer, Wylie, was a complete nutter!

Also I see the Black Sheep Index refers to the following newspaper articles. You can purchase copies from the website:

http://www.lightage.demon.co.uk/BSIN-R.htm#Home

James Orr Weaver Paisley 1833
James Orr Weaver Paisley 1834
John Orr Mill owner Paisley 1833
Thomas Orr Weaver Paisley 1858

Where would we find the link for that Paul? would I just google?
Great work by the way, I'm sure Christine will be delighted.

You need to subscribe to the Times Online.

http://infotrac.galegroup.com/itw/infomark/618/435/6589339w16/purl=rc6_TTDA&dyn=19!ecita?sw_aep=bed_ttda

If you PM me your e-mail address I can send the article as an attachment.

Oh, That's a bit of a bugger for me then!.

Don't waste you time searching for "Inquest" or "Coroners" in Scotland. These are purely English concepts. Might be worth contacting the MItchell Library in Glasgow. Take a look at the website first. From memory there's some info on there about police records etc but it's an absolute mine of very useful information and guidance.

Denis.

Thanks so much everybody!!
I hope to get the "answer" from a Times newspaper article which Paul is kindly sending me, Thanks again for your interest and help

Christine

Just sent it to you Christine. Don't forget to let us all know what you think of it!

And do follow up the 'Black Sheep Index' lead - I've used them myself and I'd recommend them to everybody.

The description of Wylie's behaviour is so revealing I'm sure that if we have a trained psychiatrist on this board we could have a diagnosis of his precise condition - something that would undoubtedly be controlled by medication these days.

The black sheep index also specifically mentions Robert Orr of Paisley as well as the ones Paul refers to. It's in the main 'Black (and white) Sheep' index.

Just read the article from Paul,
Robert's murder was William Wylie, who came from a prominent local family and had BIG mental problems. The article tells how Wylie had gone to Paisley infirmary and was causing a scene, Robert was passing by and probably went to help and Wylie stabbed him!
The Times article says a lot about the times, how much sympathy there is for Wylie's family and while it does say Robert is a good and dilagent man, he was only weaver so he and his family hardly rate a mention!!

Anyway thankyou all for your help and advise and for solving this tragic mystery

Christine

Glad to see you got so much information. Sad but true that working class people seemed to be more disposable than their 'betters' in the good old days.
Did hid wife remarry? as so any widows seemed to have to do. Hope she at least found a happier ending.
Best wishes

Just a bit of an update for anyone who's interested. Robert's daughter Catherine, who was born 7 months after he was murdered had the middle name Wylie, the surname of Roberts killer!! thought this was very strange. Cant find any thing on Catherine after the 1861 cenus, so she may have died but can't find a death cert. either so not sure?
Yes Helen ,Marrion his wife did marry again to Alexander Miller, I think, can't find a marriage record but all the Orr chilren appear in 1871 cenus as children-in-law with parents called Alexander and Mirran, so I think this must be her!
Lots more mysteries to solve!!

Christine

I wonder if the Wylie family generously compensated her for her loss and befriended her. I hope so.

It would be a nice thought Paul, but no amount of compenensation would get me to name a child after it,s father's murder! Almost as cruel as naming it after your mother in law!!


Christine

Just reading latest twists and turns with interest.
I have to keep reminding myself with my own family history that times were different, but even taking that into account I don't think I could name my child after it's father's killer, no matter what.