Find Ancestors

Just found the account of the trial. Another lengthy article. I'll e-mail it to you Christine.

Hi
You could also try the website for your local council an type in Bereavement services. they might tell you where the grave is. That's what I did and found the grave of my gt grandparents. hope this helps
Sheila

Royal Hospital, Chelsea: Discharge Documents of Pensioners WO 121/52/312
ROBERT ORR Born PAISLEY, Renfrewshire Served in 3rd Foot Guards Discharged aged 28 after 9 years of service . ROBERT ORR Born PAISLEY, Renfrewshire Served in 3rd Foot Guards Discharged aged 28 after 9 years of service Certificates of service (disability
Date: 1802.

Hi Christine ,
I know this is totally unrelated to your original request but thought it might be something to do with a previous generation of yours.

I was searching on National archives to see if i could find anything and came across this.

well it might be of use or you might already have it.

Glad you resolved your mystery.

Lorraine

Know what you mean Helen!! Catherine isn't even my direct ancester her older brother is butI I'm fasinated by her story. My big hope is that my dad who died a couple of years ago will come though with all the answers, as his death prompted me to start this! But he was a man of few words in life and he thought long and hard before he spoke so I don't supose he'll be in a hurry!! I miss him anyway

That's probably why people use these these pseudonyms, to avoid detection when calling mothers in law.
Although I don't plan to diss my Ma in law, I wish I knew how to adopt a nom de plume on here! (Although I doubt I could think of anything witty, and there's already a Seaham Lass on the go).
Also just thinking, have you noticed when you get questions answered with your family history, it just throws up other questions. Now you know most of the circs surrounding Robert's death, you have all the questions of why his daughter had his murderers family name as her middle name. Drives you mad eh? I just hope when I shuffle off this mortal coil I get all my answers cos I doubt I'll get them in this lifetime!

I know Helen, I doubt I'll ever know who why she was called Wylie, I do so hope she didn't die young but I can't find her any where after 1861 cenus but at least I haven't found a death record, so there is still hope!
Hope my mother in law doesn't read these posts!!

Christine

Just reading latest twists and turns with interest.
I have to keep reminding myself with my own family history that times were different, but even taking that into account I don't think I could name my child after it's father's killer, no matter what.

It would be a nice thought Paul, but no amount of compenensation would get me to name a child after it,s father's murder! Almost as cruel as naming it after your mother in law!!


Christine

I wonder if the Wylie family generously compensated her for her loss and befriended her. I hope so.

Just a bit of an update for anyone who's interested. Robert's daughter Catherine, who was born 7 months after he was murdered had the middle name Wylie, the surname of Roberts killer!! thought this was very strange. Cant find any thing on Catherine after the 1861 cenus, so she may have died but can't find a death cert. either so not sure?
Yes Helen ,Marrion his wife did marry again to Alexander Miller, I think, can't find a marriage record but all the Orr chilren appear in 1871 cenus as children-in-law with parents called Alexander and Mirran, so I think this must be her!
Lots more mysteries to solve!!

Christine

Glad to see you got so much information. Sad but true that working class people seemed to be more disposable than their 'betters' in the good old days.
Did hid wife remarry? as so any widows seemed to have to do. Hope she at least found a happier ending.
Best wishes

Just read the article from Paul,
Robert's murder was William Wylie, who came from a prominent local family and had BIG mental problems. The article tells how Wylie had gone to Paisley infirmary and was causing a scene, Robert was passing by and probably went to help and Wylie stabbed him!
The Times article says a lot about the times, how much sympathy there is for Wylie's family and while it does say Robert is a good and dilagent man, he was only weaver so he and his family hardly rate a mention!!

Anyway thankyou all for your help and advise and for solving this tragic mystery

Christine

The black sheep index also specifically mentions Robert Orr of Paisley as well as the ones Paul refers to. It's in the main 'Black (and white) Sheep' index.

Just sent it to you Christine. Don't forget to let us all know what you think of it!

And do follow up the 'Black Sheep Index' lead - I've used them myself and I'd recommend them to everybody.

The description of Wylie's behaviour is so revealing I'm sure that if we have a trained psychiatrist on this board we could have a diagnosis of his precise condition - something that would undoubtedly be controlled by medication these days.

Thanks so much everybody!!
I hope to get the "answer" from a Times newspaper article which Paul is kindly sending me, Thanks again for your interest and help

Christine

Don't waste you time searching for "Inquest" or "Coroners" in Scotland. These are purely English concepts. Might be worth contacting the MItchell Library in Glasgow. Take a look at the website first. From memory there's some info on there about police records etc but it's an absolute mine of very useful information and guidance.

Denis.

Oh, That's a bit of a bugger for me then!.

You need to subscribe to the Times Online.

http://infotrac.galegroup.com/itw/infomark/618/435/6589339w16/purl=rc6_TTDA&dyn=19!ecita?sw_aep=bed_ttda

If you PM me your e-mail address I can send the article as an attachment.

Where would we find the link for that Paul? would I just google?
Great work by the way, I'm sure Christine will be delighted.

Have you read the lengthy article in The Times, Thursday, Jul 22, 1858; pg. 9; Issue 23052; col F "DISTRESSING OCCURRENCE"? It looks like his killer, Wylie, was a complete nutter!

Also I see the Black Sheep Index refers to the following newspaper articles. You can purchase copies from the website:

http://www.lightage.demon.co.uk/BSIN-R.htm#Home

James Orr Weaver Paisley 1833
James Orr Weaver Paisley 1834
John Orr Mill owner Paisley 1833
Thomas Orr Weaver Paisley 1858