Profile | Posted by | Options | Post Date |
|
Graham
|
Report
|
17 Nov 2007 22:41 |
Hi folks, I am looking for a birth or baptism date for William Cooper, born around 1854 in Bilston, Staffordshire. The 1881 & 1901 Census shows him as being married to Harriett. Both of these census returns give William and Harriet's date of birth about 1854.The marriage certificate I have just received shows a William, son of Joseph Cooper (Publican) marrying Harriett Eccleston daughter of Job Eccleston (Miner, deceased) in Dudley in 1875 this certificate shows that they were both born around 1846. Any help on this would be much appreciated. Graham Morris
|
|
JaneyCanuck
|
Report
|
17 Nov 2007 22:58 |
Hi Graham! I have William Coopers back then, one of whom was a publican. But his was the Gas Tavern in Worksop, now thankfully called the Canal Pub. ;)
In 1871, this would be the William Cooper son of Joseph whose marriage certificate you have:
Name: William Cooper Age: 24 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1847 Relation: Son Father's Name: Joseph Mother's Name: Phoebe Gender: Male Where born: Bilston, Staffordshire, England Civil Parish: Bilston Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary Town: Bilston County/Island: Staffordshire Country: England Registration district: Wolverhampton Sub-registration district: Bilston ED, institution, or vessel: 10 Household schedule number: 45
Alfred Cooper 5 Edwin Cooper 19 Elijah Cooper 15 Joseph Cooper 57 - Beer House Keeper Joseph Cooper 9 Phoebe Cooper 50 Samuel Cooper 22 Selina Cooper 17 William Cooper 24 Edward Pugh 12
Whereas there is this William Cooper in 1871 who better matches yours in 1881 and 1901:
Editing again -- he was born in 1845, not yours at all, and I'm now going to take out a whole lot of other bumph.
Now, here is that older William Cooper in 1881:
Name: William Cooper Age: 34 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1847 Relation: Head Spouse's Name: Harriet Gender: Male Where born: Bilston, Staffordshire, England Civil Parish: Bilston County/Island: Staffordshire Country: England Street address: 4 CT Brook St Condition as to marriage: Married Occupation: Forge Labourer Registration district: Wolverhampton Sub-registration district: Bilston ED, institution, or vessel: 10
Harriet Cooper 35 Phoebe Cooper 3 William Cooper 34
So they're different people, for sure.
|
|
JaneyCanuck
|
Report
|
17 Nov 2007 23:18 |
Okay, the William Cooper married to Hannah Shaw who was born in France is a whole nother William Cooper, and I'm deleting everything that had to do with him.
Yeesh. Nobody's ever going to listen to anything I say again ...
|
|
JaneyCanuck
|
Report
|
17 Nov 2007 23:48 |
There's no William Cooper + Harriett marriage in Wolverhampton between 1860 and 1880.
There's this possible pair:
Marriages Dec 1874 Cooper William Dudley 6c 189 DAVIS Harriet Dudley 6c 189
and once again, deleting the William Cooper + Hannah Shaw bumph ...
|
|
JaneyCanuck
|
Report
|
18 Nov 2007 00:07 |
Getting back to your question: YOUR William was born about 1854.
This looks like him in 1861:
Name: William Cooper [Willian Cooper] (Ancestry has corrected its own mistranscription) Age: 7 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1854 Relation: Son Father's Name: Ammer Mother's Name: Emma Gender: Male Where born: Bilston Civil Parish: Bilston Ecclesiastical parish: St Leonard Town: Bilston County/Island: Staffordshire Country: England Registration district: Wolverhampton Sub-registration district: Bilston ED, institution, or vessel: 31 Household schedule number: 17
Ammer Cooper 35 Ammer Cooper 3 Emma Cooper 34 Hannah Cooper 17 Thomas Cooper 10 Mo William Cooper 7
And I'm going to post this in case of crashes, and go look at that image in IE to see what this "Ammer" might be.
Well huh. It is Ammer -- a coal miner born in Bilston. Except that nobody by that name, if such it is, was ever born, married or died in England.
Aha -- 1851 says Ammon.
Name: Ammon Cooper Year of Registration: 1847 Quarter of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec District: Wolverhampton County: Shropshire, Staffordshire, West Midlands Volume: 17 Page: 420
married Emma Waltho.
Lucky you, if so. Coopers with unusual names. I thought my Reuben Cooper had one ... but I still can't find him before 1851.
AMMON COOPER Christening: 07 DEC 1823 Hanbury, Stafford, England Father: JOHN COOPER Mother: HANNAH Batch No.: C082261
EMMA [WALTHOW] Christening: 24 OCT 1824 Kings Bromley, Stafford, England Mother: ANNE WALTHOW Batch No.: C037983
If your William Cooper is the one born abt 1854 in Bilston, then those seem to be his parents.
|
|
JaneyCanuck
|
Report
|
18 Nov 2007 00:26 |
One last suggestion -- the Ann M Cooper, daughter, in the 1881 William-Harriet household would have to be one of these:
Name: Ann Maria Cooper Year of Registration: 1878 Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun District: Wolverhampton County: Shropshire, Staffordshire, West Midlands Volume: 6b Page: 695
Name: Ann Maria Cooper Year of Registration: 1878 Quarter of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec District: Wolverhampton County: Shropshire, Staffordshire, West Midlands Volume: 6b Page: 649
-- so if you order 'em up, you'll know which one had parents William and Harriett, and you'll know Harriett's surname, and you can take another shot at finding a marriage!
Here they are in 1891, btw:
Name: William Cooper Age: 28 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1863 Relation: Head Spouse's Name: Harriet Ann Gender: Male Where born: Bilston, Staffordshire, England Civil Parish: Bilston Ecclesiastical parish: St Leonard Town: Bilston County/Island: Staffordshire Country: England Registration district: Wolverhampton Sub-registration district: Bilston ED, institution, or vessel: 30
Ann Marie Cooper 12 George W Cooper 2 Hammond Cooper 8 Harriet Ann Cooper 37 William Cooper 28
William's occupation is correct -- Iron Works Engineer -- and his age is obviously just enumerator error.
And this would be son George, the only candidate I see, thus only one cert needed for getting Harriett's name:
Name: George William Cooper Year of Registration: 1888 Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep District: Wolverhampton County: Shropshire, Staffordshire, West Midlands Volume: 6b Page: 615
And note son named Hammond, a variant of Ammon, I suspect. Can't find a birth to match, though.
Still no marriage to a Harriet(t) Ann, other than possibly one named Paige to a William Madders Cooper in Okehampton in 1878, which seems unlikely.
I sure hope you're reading ... and you've managed to wade your way through!
|
|
JaneyCanuck
|
Report
|
18 Nov 2007 01:00 |
Here's an interesting thing.
In 1871:
Name: Harriet Burne -- I read it as Burns Age: 7 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1854 Relation: Daughter Father's Name: Benjmin Mother's Name: Eliza Gender: Female Where born: Bilston, Staffordshire, England Civil Parish: Bilston Ecclesiastical parish: St Leonard Town: Bilston County/Island: Staffordshire Country: England
Name: Harriet Burns Year of Registration: 1877 Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep District: Wolverhampton County: Shropshire, Staffordshire, West Midlands Volume: 6b Page: 651
-- groom on page: George Cooper.
Is it possible that William was in fact George William? His son was.
No birth by that name registered in Wolverhampton in the right time, but two William George-s -- one in Q1 1854 in West Bromwich and one in Q1 1854 in Wolstanton.
editing ... no, dang, that seems to be this couple in 1881:
Name: Harriet Cooper Age: 27 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1854 Relation: Wife Spouse's Name: George Henry Gender: Female Where born: Bilston, Staffordshire, England Civil Parish: Wednesfield County/Island: Staffordshire Country: England Street address: 58 Salop St Condition as to marriage: Married Occupation: Pawn Brokers Wife Registration district: Wolverhampton Sub-registration district: Bilston ED, institution, or vessel: 6
George Henry Cooper 29 Harriet Cooper 27 Harriet B. Cooper
Sigh.
|
|
Graham
|
Report
|
18 Nov 2007 10:04 |
Hi Kathryn, Many thanks for your quick response, it is going to take me some time to take in all of this info. Some of the census returns and other info. I already have and some I have not. 1901 census for 40, Greencroft, Bilston. RG 13/2690 page 25 shows the following: William Cooper age 47 (estimated birth year 1854) Harriet A. Cooper age 46 (Estimated birth year 1855) Hammond Cooper age 18 George H. Cooper age 12 John Thomas Cooper age 9 (my grandfather)
The 1881 census I have shows Williams age as being 27 (estimated birth year 1854)
This ties in with your 1891 Census details apart from Williams age 28 (estimated birth year 1863 and Harriet's as 1854) I have not got this 1891 census, but will now look for it.
I will now send off for some birth certificates based on the info you have given me and hopefully find out Harriet's maiden name.
Again, many thanks for your info and time spent.
Regards, Graham [email protected]
|
|
JaneyCanuck
|
Report
|
18 Nov 2007 20:57 |
You're welcome! It's fun, and it's always possible a fresh eye will see something, and I place my faith in genealogy karma -- it will come back around, and someday, someone will find a key to one of my mysteries. ;)
If you ever run into a Reuben Cooper born sometime around 1825 in Calverton, Nottingham ... whose siblings' baptisms and apparent parents' marriage are all in the IGI but of whom no trace is to be found before he's shacked up with my grx2 grmother in 1851 (they got around to marrying in 1872) ... well, you know where to find me!
|
|
Graham
|
Report
|
24 Nov 2007 02:25 |
Hi Kathryn B, Today received the birth certs. for both George will William Cooper and my grandfather, John Thomas Cooper. Their mothers maiden name was Harriet Ann Russell. Not Eccleston. So it's back now on the trail for a suitable "Russell" Will keep my eye out for your Reuben in my research and should his name appear at anytime, you will hear from me. Regards Graham
|
|
JaneyCanuck
|
Report
|
24 Nov 2007 21:51 |
Here ya go!
Name: Harriet Ann Russell Year of Registration: 1871 Quarter of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec District: Wolverhampton County: Shropshire, Staffordshire, West Midlands Volume: 6b Page: 844
+ William Cooper on same page.
Ancestry found that one in a wink, on a search for a Harriet Russell marriage in that time frame. I have no idea why it wasn't showing up before.
|
|
JaneyCanuck
|
Report
|
24 Nov 2007 21:57 |
I think you can be confident that your William who married Harriet was the son of Ammon Cooper and Emma Waltho -- but that marriage cert will give you his father's name.
But you'd probably have to order more than one birth cert of the several William Coopers born in Wolverhampton during the time frame, to confirm his birth details!
|
|
Graham
|
Report
|
25 Nov 2007 08:48 |
Hi Kathryn Have now sent for the marriage certificate, another lady put me onto that record after I failed to find it through BMD. I have now found it myself, funny it did not find it yesterday. Hopefully I shall get the certificate for when I am back home next weekend, (I work away in the week) Then I hope to have another bit of searching to do. Will keep you posted. Thanks Kathryn Regards Graham
|
|
Graham
|
Report
|
1 Dec 2007 22:23 |
Hi Kathryn B Have now got the Marriager Cert. William Cooper, age 19 (Bilston Road, Bilston/Wolverhampton) to Harriet Ann Russell age 17 (Bilston Street, St. Leonards, Bilston) 24th. Dec. 1871 at St. Peters church, Wolverhampton. Williams father was Hammond a Collier and Harriets father was Thomas a Fitter. So you were correct about Hammond and Emma. So a little more research to be done now, and a few more certificates to send off for. Regards, Graham.
|
|
JaneyCanuck
|
Report
|
1 Dec 2007 22:39 |
If you knew me, you'd know: I'm always right, and I never lie! ;)
(And I quote Firesign Theatre at the drop of a hat. Put down that pickle!)
So now you have ages that might help track down the births too, hopefully. Of course, we know who William's mother was already, and more, from the marriage and the baptism info in the IGI. Lucky you ... but still no word about my Reuben Cooper, sniff ...
|