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Ann
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27 Nov 2007 17:24 |
I'm trying to trace the parents of Sarah Frampton (nee Holmes) B: abt 1864 D: Abt 1908. She was married to Isaac Frederick Frampton B: 1863 and had 6 children Eliza, Isaac, James, julia, Edward and Pheobe Frampton
Any help would be appreciated.
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Penny
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27 Nov 2007 17:29 |
do you have her marriage cert? where did they marry or even live?
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JaneyCanuck
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27 Nov 2007 17:33 |
Place names are always useful!
This appears to be their marriage:
Marriages Sep 1886 BEASY Elizabeth Romford 4a 312 ** FRAMPTON Isaac Romford 4a 312 ** HOLMES Sarah Romford 4a 312 Lawrence Henry Romford 4a 312
Ordering the marriage certificate should get you their fathers' names, for tracing back in the censuses.
There are three Sarah Holmes births in the general time period in Romford (where she may not have been born), this one looking like maybe the most likely:
Births Jun 1865 Holmes Sarah Ann Holmes Romford 4a 109
-- but best to get the marriage certificate first and see whether you can identify her with her parents in censuses to see what the date and place of birth are likely to be.
Above found handily and free of charge at:
http://www.freebmd.org.uk
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JaneyCanuck
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27 Nov 2007 17:35 |
Just a note about searching at FreeBMD.
Before 1911, the bride and groom names were not connected up in the GRO index.
But FreeBMD will still search for names that appear on the same page, so I searched marriages 1880 to 1890 for surname Frampton with surname Holmes on the same page. Fortunately, the surnames were not Smith and Hill, and the given names were not John and Mary, so it was easy to identify the correct one. I hope!
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Selena in South East London
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27 Nov 2007 17:36 |
Not sure if this is her in 1881?
Name Relation Marital Status Gender Age Birthplace Occupation Disability George HOLMES Head M Male 45 Dover, Kent, England General Laborer Ann HOLMES Wife M Female 55 Chadwell, Essex, England Sarah HOLMES Daur U Female 16 Ilford, Essex, England Jute Work
Source Information: Dwelling Back St Census Place Barking, Essex, England Family History Library Film 1341420 Public Records Office Reference RG11 Piece / Folio 1746 / 69 Page Number 9
Oh no, here is another one in Essex
Household:
Name Relation Marital Status Gender Age Birthplace Occupation Disability Wm. Thos. HOLMES Head M Male 40 London Oxford St., London, Middlesex, England Certificated Teacher Sarah HOLMES Wife M Female 38 P. Risboro., Buckingham, England Sarah E.J. HOLMES Daur U Female 15 Heybridge, Essex, England Scholar W. Stanley HOLMES Son U Male 13 Heybridge, Essex, England Scholar Leonard R. HOLMES Son U Male 11 Heybridge, Essex, England Scholar Gilbert E. HOLMES Son U Male 4 Heybridge, Essex, England Scholar Eleanor M. HOLMES Daur U Female 6 w Heybridge, Essex, England
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Source Information: Dwelling Well Terrace Census Place Heybridge, Essex, England Family History Library Film 1341429 Public Records Office Reference RG11 Piece / Folio 1777 / 21 Page Number 37
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Dorsetbaby
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27 Nov 2007 17:39 |
Surname First name(s) District Vol Page
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Marriages Sep 1886 FRAMPTON Isaac Romford 4a 312 HOLMES Sarah Romford 4a 312
census 1891 FRAMPTON, Isaac Head Married M 26 General Labourer Lewisham Kent FRAMPTON, Sarah Wife Married F 27 Ilford Essex FRAMPTON, Eliza Daughter F 8 Scholar Ilford Essex FRAMPTON, Isaac Son M 4 Scholar Ilford Essex FRAMPTON, James Son M 2 Westham Essex
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- RG number: RG12 Piece: 1319 Folio: 19 Page: 37 Registration District: West Ham Sub District: West Ham EnumerationDistrict: Ecclesiastical Parish: St Lukes Civil Parish: Canning Town Municipal Borough: West Ham Address: 13, Rivett Street, Canning Town, West Ham County: Essex
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Selena in South East London
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27 Nov 2007 17:41 |
Perhaps the Sarah in Ilford,
ROMFORD REGISTRATION DISTRICT Registration County : Essex. Created : 1.7.1837. Abolished : 1.4.1965 (succeeded by Barking & Dagenham, Havering and Redbridge districts). Sub-districts : Barking Town; Dagenham; Hornchurch; Ilford; Oldchurch Hospital; Romford.
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JaneyCanuck
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27 Nov 2007 17:46 |
This might be the info you have already, from the 1891 census -- I found it by searching for Isaac Frampton in Romford born 1860 +/-10 wtih wife Sarah:
Name: Sarah Frampton Age: 27 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1864 Relation: Wife Spouse's Name: Isaac Gender: Female Where born: Elford, Essex, England Civil Parish: West Ham Ecclesiastical parish: St Luke County/Island: Essex Country: England Registration district: West Ham Sub-registration district: West Ham ED, institution, or vessel: 14
Eliza Frampton 8 Isaac Frampton 26 Isaac Frampton 4 James Frampton 2 Sarah Frampton 27
So using that birth info, we search in 1881, and find what is probably your Sarah:
Name: Sarah Holmes Age: 16 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1865 Relation: Daughter Father's Name: George Mother's Name: Ann Gender: Female Where born: Ilford, Essex, England Occupation: Jute Work
Name: George Holmes Age: 45 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1836 Relation: Head Spouse's Name: Ann Gender: Male Where born: Dover, Kent, England Condition as to marriage: Married Occupation: General Laborer
Name: Ann Holmes Age: 55 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1826 Relation: Wife Spouse's Name: George Gender: Female Where born: Chadwell, Essex, England Condition as to marriage: Married Civil Parish: Barking County/Island: Essex Country: England Street address: Back St Civil Parish: Barking County/Island: Essex Country: England Registration district: Romford Sub-registration district: Ilford ED, institution, or vessel: 5
Ann Holmes 55 George Holmes 45 Sarah Holmes 16
The marriage certificate will confirm whether your Sarah's father was George, and should give his occupation as well.
Now -- you can go to FreeBMD and search for the marriage of a George Holmes to an Ann in Essex sometime in the early 1860s!
Actually, given their ages, the marriage could have been later -- editing: oops, I meant earlier -- so you'll be wanting to find Ann's birth surname from Sarah's birth certificate, or use Ann's personal info from that record to search for her pre-marriage in the censuses. (I checked the 1881 image, and she is indeed shown as aged 55, and George aged 45.)
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Ann
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27 Nov 2007 18:28 |
Thank you all very much, I'll get Sarah's birth certificate next - that's more luck then I've had for the last month in finding information about My Great Grandmother.
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JaneyCanuck
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27 Nov 2007 18:30 |
I'd still get the marriage certificate first, or at least contemporaneously! -- just to make sure of Sarah's father's name, to match up with the birth certificate. You know she's the one in the marriage record, just can't be sure she's the one in the birth record w/o a bit more info to confirm it.
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